D&D General why do we not have an arcane half caster?

[DEFCON 1]

I would possibly propose building the swordmage, ironically enough, as an anti-mage or spellbreaker. Magic and mages in the world of D&D are dangerous, and the swordmage is equipped with both the swords and the sorcery to shut mages down, bypass spells and arcane wards, and resist magical monsters.

I presume this is the identity you had come up with that you said I skipped over, yes? Well, I will say that I personally do in fact like this concept of what a fighter/wizard's story for a class could be. Heck, the video game Dragon Age has an entire order called the Templars that have this function in their game world... keeping the apostate Mages in check. Now granted, I don't think Templars actually use magic in their duties themselves if I'm remembering correctly (and I could easily be wrong)... but the idea of the class story still holds a bit of weight.

The only issue at this point then is whether the setting of D&D feel as though they are missing the identity of the "magic police" (for lack of a better word). If this was a trope that D&D needed, then an arcane half-caster that specializes in counterspells, dispelling magic and so forth could actually become a "thing".

If you were to ask me personally if I thought this identity of an arcane half-caster would be embraced... my answer would be "probably not". Because the story doesn't dive into the idea of what I think most people have of an fighter/wizard arcane half-caster just like the Bard and the Artificer don't. But at least this class HAS a story, so props to you for actually coming up with one.

 

[Charlaquin]

But what's the CLASS? Tell me the story of the class. What does the class do? You gave me all the subclasses, but not what the class does. Why do all those subclasses need to be underneath a new class, rather than subclasses of the Fighter, Wizard, and Rogue?

Were you referring to my post? I don’t even think my suggestions for various origins would even constitute subclasses. I’m just trying to get a brainstorm ball rolling. An important part of any spellcasting class’s identity is where their magic comes from, so I suggested the idea of people who, like sorcerers, have some kind of inherent magic, but who unlike sorcerers had that ability induced in them somehow. I tried to keep it general so that it could be fit into lots of different worlds and campaigns (no relying on a specific organization, for example.)

If folks like this idea as a starting point, we can continue to build on it. What do these people do? Well, the induced-magic background suggests that they’re created, which would mean they’re probably created by someone, and probably for a particular purpose. Super-soldier is an obvious one. Or maybe slaves? That seems harder to justify, as why would you want your slaves to be magically empowered.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I posted a PDF earlier, why not check that? I even wrote it up as a full class with several subclasses built into it.

Okay I read it. And the Eldritch Warrior class has no story as far as I can see. All it has is a description that says:

"Eldritch warriors are martial spellcasters who use their magic to augment their martial prowess. They focus primarily on magics that assist them in battle, either offensively or defensively. They have little time for the subtley of magic and focus on bold and daring magicks whose results that are quickly and obviously seen."

The story from this appears to be "a warrior who cast spells". Which has been exactly my point this entire time. WotC is never going to create a new class that has little to no story and pushes all the lore and fluff onto the subclasses. They already have four of those-- the fighter, rogue, cleric, and wizard (and heck, even the cleric and wizard really do have some fluff to them.)

Look, I'm not dropping these "truth bombs" here because I don't want WotC to create an arcane half-caster class. I honestly would be fine if they did! All I'm saying is that if you WANT one to finally get created and stick in the game the same way like the sorcerer, monk, and warlock have... you just can't offer up the same tired schtick that has been done over and over and over before. Because it hasn't worked. And if you try it again for 5E, it still won't work. You NEED something more if you have any hope of seeing it come about.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Were you referring to my post? I don’t even think my suggestions for various origins would even constitute subclasses.

Nope, I quoted and was responding to @Stormonu. Yer good!

 

[TwoSix]

If you had a paladin, a ranger, an artificer, and this hypothetical AHC in a party together, what could/should the AHC bring to the table that the others don't, both in terms on concepts and abilities?

 

[Chaosmancer]

I wonder if the concept of a Binder has legs. Someone who mixes magical and martial skill for the purpose of binding and sealing beings like Fiends and Fey that the Paladin would just destroy. It seems like a concept not well explored yet that could fit.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Were you referring to my post? I don’t even think my suggestions for various origins would even constitute subclasses. I’m just trying to get a brainstorm ball rolling. An important part of any spellcasting class’s identity is where their magic comes from, so I suggested the idea of people who, like sorcerers, have some kind of inherent magic, but who unlike sorcerers had that ability induced in them somehow. I tried to keep it general so that it could be fit into lots of different worlds and campaigns (no relying on a specific organization, for example.)

If folks like this idea as a starting point, we can continue to build on it. What do these people do? Well, the induced-magic background suggests that they’re created, which would mean they’re probably created by someone, and probably for a particular purpose. Super-soldier is an obvious one. Or maybe slaves? That seems harder to justify, as why would you want your slaves to be magically empowered.

artificially induced magic is not something done a lot it could work.
super solders and magic enforcers (police are called law enforcement for a reason) has been proposed we got any more options as we might have an idea here.

 

[Aldarc]

ALL of these could be subclasses of the same fighter/wizard subclass, stressing different aspects and qualities of the class.

I'm not sure if all of these would make for unique subclasses. I would probably expand in terms of tactics and story: e.g., a mage-knight that deploys illusions to gain the tactical advantage; a mage-knight focused on fighting magical monsters/aberrations; a mage-knight that embraces magical buffs to their physical prowess; one who focuses on archery; a "mage-hunter" that is better at sensing/tracking magic; etc.

I presume this is the identity you had come up with that you said I skipped over, yes? Well, I will say that I personally do in fact like this concept of what a fighter/wizard's story for a class could be. Heck, the video game Dragon Age has an entire order called the Templars that have this function in their game world... keeping the apostate Mages in check. Now granted, I don't think Templars actually use magic in their duties themselves if I'm remembering correctly (and I could easily be wrong)... but the idea of the class story still holds a bit of weight.

The only issue at this point then is whether the setting of D&D feel as though they are missing the identity of the "magic police" (for lack of a better word). If this was a trope that D&D needed, then an arcane half-caster that specializes in counterspells, dispelling magic and so forth could actually become a "thing".

If you were to ask me personally if I thought this identity of an arcane half-caster would be embraced... my answer would be "probably not". Because the story doesn't dive into the idea of what I think most people have of an fighter/wizard arcane half-caster just like the Bard and the Artificer don't. But at least this class HAS a story, so props to you for actually coming up with one.

I appreciate it. "Magic police" is possibly a bit too formal, if not narrow of a concept for what I have in mind. They may be in the employ of mages: guarding mages, their libraries, or fonts of magic or retrieving/destroying magical artifacts from dungeons. In short, it's a martial archetype that respects the danger of magic as a ubiquitous force/power that exists in the D&D multiverse and employ various tools to both counter and embrace it.

I think a key part of getting people to embrace it involves the aesthetic and tone. The bard has the minstrel baggage, and the artificer has the inventor baggage. A spellbreaker/templar/swordmage or whatever you want to call it should probably embrace the underlying martial feel in a way the other two archetypes don't.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I wonder if the concept of a Binder has legs. Someone who mixes magical and martial skill for the purpose of binding and sealing beings like Fiends and Fey that the Paladin would just destroy. It seems like a concept not well explored yet that could fit.

The Binder and the Witcher are two ideas that have been bandied about, both which deal with going after monsters. They both are ostensibly "monster hunters". Which to be honest is probably the best thematic idea for an arcane warrior... because they need to be really strong and healthy and combat savvy to deal with the attacks from these creatures... while also have the magical ability to find, charm, bind, and/or frighten them. Locate creature... Hold monster... Charm monster... Protection from evil... all these types of "arcane" magics would lend themselves to this archetype.

But there's only one problem. WotC keeps giving this archetype to the Ranger.

 

[Mind of tempest]

I'm not sure if all of these would make for unique subclasses. I would probably expand in terms of tactics and story: e.g., a mage-knight that deploys illusions to gain the tactical advantage; a mage-knight focused on fighting magical monsters/aberrations; a mage-knight that embraces magical buffs to their physical prowess; one who focuses on archery; a "mage-hunter" that is better at sensing/tracking magic; etc.


I appreciate it. "Magic police" is possibly a bit too formal, if not narrow of a concept for what I have in mind. They may be in the employ of mages: guarding mages, their libraries, or fonts of magic or retrieving/destroying magical artifacts from dungeons. In short, it's a martial archetype that respects the danger of magic as a ubiquitous force/power that exists in the D&D multiverse and employ various tools to both counter and embrace it. I think a key part of getting people to embrace it involves the aesthetic and tone. The bard has the minstrel baggage, and the artificer has the inventor baggage. A spellbreaker/templar/swordmage or whatever you want to call it should probably embrace the underlying martial feel in a way the other two archetypes don't.

so magic enforcers?