D&D General Old School DND talks if DND is racist.

[Haffrung]

People can be lazy.
However a lazy person cannot complain if their laziness creates something offensive or nonsensical.

That's the issue. D&D isn't full of lazy people who don't nitpick anymore.

Actually, we have no idea how many of the 10 million-plus player base of D&D dislikes clear good vs evil models of play. We don't know how many want more nuanced portrayals of monsters. We don't know how many find orcs and drow 'problematic'.
All that has changed is some recent uproars on social media. And we do know that the tiny fraction of RPG players* active on RPG social media are far from representative of the player-base. Companies should know better than to base design decisions on the hobby-horses of that small and unrepresentative sampling.
* This doesn't even get into the fact that many of those who spend a great deal of time talking about RPGs online aren't even active players, and can be more accurately characterized as pundits and social media enthusiasts.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I don't think lazy is a bad thing, you do. Context matters.

Lazy can lead to bad things if we are not careful. It would be nice if the game world could remain completely separate from the real world, but that is simply impossible. Firstly, the players exist in both the game world and the real world, and thus form a bridge between the two. Secondly, people outside of the game can look into the game world and draw conclusions based on what they see there.

 

[Oofta]

Actually, we have no idea how many of the 10 million-plus player base of D&D dislikes clear good vs evil models of play. We don't know how many want more nuanced portrayals of monsters. We don't know how many find orcs and drow 'problematic'.
All that has changed is some recent uproars on social media. And we do know that the tiny fraction of RPG players* active on RPG social media are far from representative of the player-base. Companies should know better than to base design decisions on the hobby-horses of that small and unrepresentative sampling.
* This doesn't even get into the fact that many of those who spend a great deal of time talking about RPGs online aren't even active players, and can be more accurately characterized as pundits and social media enthusiasts.

D&D is a big target. If you want eyeballs, say something controversial about a big topic. Make something up if you have to.

This is nothing new.

 

[Remathilis]

Again these evil cultists are just any old religion. I have written a lot of text about the religions of my setting that a player can have a whole theological combat.

The Infernal Horde and Acolytes of Ends are evil. The Cult of Forever Fires, The Cult of Orc Love, and the Beast Cults aren't.

So, these cultists who join your Doomsday cult all do so of their own free will, of sound mind and body, fully aware of the evil nature of the power they serve? None of them have been brainwashed, lied to, raised by the cult, loners looking for acceptance, love or family, or forced or coerced to serve the cult against thier will?

Just making sure these nameless cultists are true believers before I cut down swaths of them with steel and spell...

 

[Oofta]

Lazy can lead to bad things if we are not careful. It would be nice if the game world could remain completely separate from the real world, but that is simply impossible. Firstly, the players exist in both the game world and the real world, and thus form a bridge between the two. Secondly, people outside of the game can look into the game world and draw conclusions based on what they see there.

Can does not mean it automatically will.

Considering the year on year growth of the game the issue doesn't seem to be hurting. As always, there's room for improvement. I think expunging the concept of good and evil from the game is a mistake.

P.S. study after study has never shown violence in fiction leads to violence in real life.

 

[Minigiant]

Actually, we have no idea how many of the 10 million-plus player base of D&D dislikes clear good vs evil models of play. We don't know how many want more nuanced portrayals of monsters. We don't know how many find orcs and drow 'problematic'.
All that has changed is some recent uproars on social media. And we do know that the tiny fraction of RPG players* active on RPG social media are far from representative of the player-base. Companies should know better than to base design decisions on the hobby-horses of that small and unrepresentative sampling.
* This doesn't even get into the fact that many of those who spend a great deal of time talking about RPGs online aren't even active players, and can be more accurately characterized as pundits and social media enthusiasts.

Just like we don't know how many use simple food vs evil models, we don't know how many are upset by poor portrayals.

One cannot assume that few are upset. That's how Games Workshop hit the limit of their customer base, stalled in growth, and had to downsize. Because Warhammer got too silly and too offensive to garner a fan base large enough to pay for those expensive models.

 

[Bagpuss]

They fuse and make pacts with entities who openly seek Armageddon. It's isn't just a different religion.

Oh so like some Christian groups seeking the end times?

 

[Oofta]

Just like we don't know how many use simple food vs evil models, we don't know how many are upset by poor portrayals.

One cannot assume that few are upset. That's how Games Workshop hit the limit of their customer base, stalled in growth, and had to downsize. Because Warhammer got too silly and too offensive to garner a fan base large enough to pay for those expensive models.

Yeah, the sales of D&D are really going down the toilet with every year seeing only double digit growth. Sad really. If only we followed your one true way.

 

[Remathilis]

Just like we don't know how many use simple food vs evil models, we don't know how many are upset by poor portrayals.

One cannot assume that few are upset. That's how Games Workshop hit the limit of their customer base, stalled in growth, and had to downsize. Because Warhammer got too silly and too offensive to garner a fan base large enough to pay for those expensive models.

I agree. Food is the opposite of evil.

 

[Horwath]

I certainly expect players to feel guilty if their characters kill outside of self defense/defense of others. I have an (imaginary) "Star Fleet" badge that I give out when players resolve a conflict without violence.

I PCs kill someone outside self defense, and feel no remorse them they are EVIL. especially if they take pleasure from it. Or maybe they are just sociopaths and simply do not care either way, so maybe they can be neutral(leaning towards evil).

Or they can be good in some aspects and evil in other.