D&D General Old School DND talks if DND is racist.

[TheSword]

Can someone give clarity on what further changes are beings suggested or requested?

My understanding is that monolithically evil monstrous humanoids are done with. The last printed product and future products aren’t going to present monsters in that way. Icewind Dale kobolds are “any alignment” in the stat block. Goliaths have alignment removed.

Is this thread about complaining about changes that have already happened. What more do people want? What is next?

 

[Morrus]

Is this thread about complaining about changes that have already happened. What more do people want? What is next?

Well, it wasn't. And now it's the same orcs/racism thread we've had about a dozen times, with the same posts, mainly with the same people saying the exact same things they said in those other threads, all of which ended up being closed for the exact same reasons.

 

[TheSword]

Well, it wasn't. And now it's the same orcs/racism thread we've had about a dozen times, with the same posts, mainly with the same people saying the exact same things they said in those other threads, all of which ended up being closed for the exact same reasons.

Ah. Ok. Sorry for highlighting that then.

I was genuinely interested in if people expect WOC to do much more than they have so far (other than keep these changes for future products)

On the flip side I’m just glad it’s not Bell of Lost Souls.

 

[Remathilis]

Can someone give clarity on what further changes are beings suggested or requested?

My understanding is that monolithically evil monstrous humanoids are done with. The last printed product and future products aren’t going to present monsters in that way. Icewind Dale kobolds are “any alignment” in the stat block. Goliaths have alignment removed.

Is this thread about complaining about changes that have already happened. What more do people want? What is next?

Well that's the real issue. We've had change and the changes wasn't "enough" and nobody can agree on what is enough or what enough looks like. We have a mission statement (equality) but a limited roadmap to it, so we are left to argue about what has come before any fret over what has not yet come to pass.

 

[TheSword]

Well that's the real issue. We've had change and the changes wasn't "enough" and nobody can agree on what is enough or what enough looks like. We have a mission statement (equality) but a limited roadmap to it, so we are left to argue about what has come before any fret over what has not yet come to pass.

Sure but what are the people who say it isn’t enough actually asking for?

A full reprint of every book? A new edition? Or stuff that is likely to happen.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

So? Not everyone is interested in writing dramatic campaigns with the depth of The Catcher in the Rye. Some people (including myself frequently) want a lazy option.

It's a game and frequently is played as pure escapism from the complexity of the real world.

And you can do that regardless of what the core books say about orcs.

 

[Oofta]

Sure but what are the people who say it isn’t enough actually asking for?

Some are saying that we should eliminate alignment altogether, some are saying there should be no always evil humanoids, others that there should be no majority evil humanoids. In the latter two cases, it's frequently still okay for non-humanoids.

 

[Remathilis]

Sure but what are the people who say it isn’t enough actually asking for?

That's the problem; there is no agreement on what else is needed. Is removing the alignment tag from orcs enough? Do we need to remove the negative stereotypes like raiders or savages? There evil racial God? Thier primitive lifestyle? Do we remove all cultural elements? Do we remove all alignment? There is no general consensus and that is frustrating the conversation.

 

[TheSword]

Some are saying that we should eliminate alignment altogether, some are saying there should be no always evil humanoids, others that there should be no majority evil humanoids. In the latter two cases, it's frequently still okay for non-humanoids.

Ok sure. So the first isn’t about removing racism though is it? Because alignment has been divorced from race. It’s because some people don’t like alignment. Which is a whole different beef.

The second has already happened as far as I can see and is now policy.

While the third, I have no earthly idea how you would measure that. As it will depend entirely on how people choose to play the game.

 

[TheSword]

That's the problem; there is no agreement on what else is needed. Is removing the alignment tag from orcs enough? Do we need to remove the negative stereotypes like raiders or savages? There evil racial God? Thier primitive lifestyle? Do we remove all cultural elements? Do we remove all alignment? There is no general consensus and that is frustrating the conversation.

It’s seems to me, if humans can be bandits, assassins, cultists and tyrant mages then it would be weird if Orcs couldn’t be. Is this controversial?

Is that really what people are looking for, or is that just a very small number of voices.