Pathfinder 2E Is it time for a new Pathfinder Setting?

[Staffan]

I think that this cohesion has been added as part of Pathfinder 2, particularly the Lost Omens Guide. So much like FR, Golarion has been thematically grouped into regions: e.g., Saga Lands, Eye of Dread, Old Cheliax, Shining Kingdoms, Broken Lands, etc.

Yes and no. Some regions have quite a bit of cohesion, at least in sub-parts. For example, Geb, the Mana Wastes, and Nex sort of form a "unit" where things outside are fairly irrelevant to the internal stuff going on, and I fully expect there to be an AP set in that part after Strength of Thousands. But even in the Impossible Lands region, Jalmeray doesn't have much to do with the rest of the region. And other regions are more heterogenous — in the Saga Lands, Varisia and New Thassilon are linked, but don't have much to do with the Linnorm Kings, Irrisen, or Mammoth Lords. The most coherent region is probably Old Cheliax consisting of Cheliax, two vassal states (Isger and Nidal), and a breakaway Cheliax province, but other than that it's pretty wild. Perhaps not to the extent of having the land of not-Vikings next door to the land of not-Arabs like in Mystara, but closer to that than to Forgotten Realms or even more coherent, Eberron.

I mean, I fully understand why they have designed Golarion that way. Golarion is designed to be a patchwork setting where you can fit in almost any campaign idea. You want a demon-tainted land? Go to the Sarkoris Scar. You want Game of Thrones? Brevoy's the country for you. Sword and Lasers? That's what Numeria is for. Trying to get by in an oppressive fascistic dictatorship? That's Cheliax. And so on and so forth. It's designed for developers to be able to find a place for almost any AP idea they can think of, and it does a good job of doing that.

The Forgotten Realms are sort of similar, except there's a core that's what I see as the "normal" Realms (NW Faerûn). My understanding is that that's where Greenwood did most of his own gaming, and the outlying areas were later additions, which is why they're sometimes a fairly poor fit.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

Yes and no. Some regions have quite a bit of cohesion, at least in sub-parts. For example, Geb, the Mana Wastes, and Nex sort of form a "unit" where things outside are fairly irrelevant to the internal stuff going on, and I fully expect there to be an AP set in that part after Strength of Thousands. But even in the Impossible Lands region, Jalmeray doesn't have much to do with the rest of the region. And other regions are more heterogenous — in the Saga Lands, Varisia and New Thassilon are linked, but don't have much to do with the Linnorm Kings, Irrisen, or Mammoth Lords. The most coherent region is probably Old Cheliax consisting of Cheliax, two vassal states (Isger and Nidal), and a breakaway Cheliax province, but other than that it's pretty wild. Perhaps not to the extent of having the land of not-Vikings next door to the land of not-Arabs like in Mystara, but closer to that than to Forgotten Realms or even more coherent, Eberron.

I mean, I fully understand why they have designed Golarion that way. Golarion is designed to be a patchwork setting where you can fit in almost any campaign idea. You want a demon-tainted land? Go to the Sarkoris Scar. You want Game of Thrones? Brevoy's the country for you. Sword and Lasers? That's what Numeria is for. Trying to get by in an oppressive fascistic dictatorship? That's Cheliax. And so on and so forth. It's designed for developers to be able to find a place for almost any AP idea they can think of, and it does a good job of doing that.

The Forgotten Realms are sort of similar, except there's a core that's what I see as the "normal" Realms (NW Faerûn). My understanding is that that's where Greenwood did most of his own gaming, and the outlying areas were later additions, which is why they're sometimes a fairly poor fit.

Thank you for the short Golarion tutorial. That just sounds awful to me. I thought the Forgotten Realms was bad, but this just sounds so much worse.

 

[Staffan]

Thank you for the short Golarion tutorial. That just sounds awful to me. I thought the Forgotten Realms was bad, but this just sounds so much worse.

In Golarion's defense, it's good at what it does, which is to provide a framework for a diverse assortment of adventure paths. This is a world that has room for warring genies (Legacy of Fire), gothic horror (Carrion Crown), exploring jungles and lost ruins (Serpent's Skull), pirates (Skull & Shackles), barbarians with super-tech (Iron Gods), and revolutions against oppressive powers (Hell's Rebels). And as long as you keep to each distinct portion of the world, things work great. It's just when you take the zoomed-out approach that things look a little weird.

 

[John R Davis]

I do play PF but I have never been grabbed by the setting. Have played/run lots APs, PFS, and one off modules. A new set of lands, history and pantheon would be a welcome thing. The best times i have had have been were the 'setting' hasn't got in the way, has been peripheral (like Kingmaker).
So come on Paizo, take the plunge

 

[Staffan]

So come on Paizo, take the plunge

It does seem rather unlikely, given how they are integrating Golarion/Lost Omens into the core products more than they did in PF1, and how they're releasing significant rules add-ons as part of the Lost Omens line (e.g. Character Guide or the new Ancestry Guide).

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

My opinion is a new setting not only has to compete with the original one, but with the ones created by the 3PPs. I guess the future plans will be about a new spin-off, as Starfinder, and even I dared to tell it as April's Fool, "Cryptfinder", mixing gothic horror, pulp+noirpunk and raypunk/vintage sci-fi. The place for the action wouldn't be the planet Golarion but in a different Dyson sphere, not really a demiplane.

 

[Emerikol]

I mean, they already release everything mechanical under the OGL. They just don't have a convenient community showcase like the DM's Guild. And I'm not sure how much that aspect of the Guild helps (compared to just being able to do D&D stuff without having to concern yourself with the legalities of the OGL).

A bigger issue when it comes to third-party stuff for Pathfinder 2 is that most of the stuff you could do for Pathfinder, you could probably do for D&D instead, and the potential D&D audience is at least an order of magnitude larger than the one for Pathfinder 2.

If I were a module maker, I would figure out a way to create one module and skin it to work with either system. Maybe even other systems. I mean stats are stats. A good module is usable with any system. Trust me as a DM, I've reworked many a module from many an edition to work with other versions of D&D.

In fact, perhaps a computer program could be created to figure all that out. Hey I'm a programmer by profession. Starts thinking....

 

[Staffan]

If I were a module maker, I would figure out a way to create one module and skin it to work with either system. Maybe even other systems. I mean stats are stats. A good module is usable with any system. Trust me as a DM, I've reworked many a module from many an edition to work with other versions of D&D.

In fact, perhaps a computer program could be created to figure all that out. Hey I'm a programmer by profession. Starts thinking....

Making generic modules has been tried in the past, and generally hasn't been very successful. Different games, even different branches off the same D&D tree, make for different pacing requirements and have different assumptions about how the world works. I mean, it'd function, but it wouldn't make for a very satisfying experience, at least not without significant tailoring to the game used.

 

[zztong]

Another reason why a new setting doesn’t make sense is Golarion is an extremely kitchen-sink setting. If you want to change things up, set your game in a different area. For example, the PF equivalent of Ravenloft is Ustalav. If you’re looking for something more like Expedition to the Barrier Peaks, there’s Numeria. Alkenstar does steampunk. If you want to get really off-beat, you can set your game on one of the other planets (as detailed in Distant Worlds). Even WW1-era Earth is part of the setting (per Rasputin Must Die!).

Everything you say rings true to me. The kitchen-sink setting is why I never really liked Golarion, but I cannot deny that in casting a wide net it probably has a wider appeal than a setting that I would find more compelling. In the end, a GM can spin their local instance of Golarion to emphasize what they like and downplay/ignore/rewrite what they don't.

 

[Staffan]

Everything you say rings true to me. The kitchen-sink setting is why I never really liked Golarion, but I cannot deny that in casting a wide net it probably has a wider appeal than a setting that I would find more compelling. In the end, a GM can spin their local instance of Golarion to emphasize what they like and downplay/ignore/rewrite what they don't.

Golarion's strength is that it provides a spot for you to put whatever cool idea you think up. Its weakness (at least for me) is that it does not have a strong inherent theme that inspires me to come up with something for the setting the way e.g. Eberron does.