@Justice and Rule : unfortunately you're just aiming for the easy targets here. I obviously already know how to describe a haunted house (or similar).
What I want to know, no, what I demand the rules tell me, is how a player is supposed to hear this description and go "hang on a minute, let me exorcise those spooky voices!"
How did you go from A to B here?
In other words, we're right back at square one. How are you supposed to avoid having to bring the meta out in the open? To not have to say "you can't possibly know this, but those malevolent images you see around you? You can
out-confound them! By using Deception!"
And that's just a single example in a long, and increasingly absurd, list.
There just is no link given between what the characters see and what the players can do!
I mean, it's really not that long. It's like several in the GMG, where they were clearly trying to push the limits of what you can do as examples of how to do things with the system. Not all of them are good, but that's fine, because they are examples meant to inspire.
And you're literally using the one that I specifically said I disliked, so it's not like I think all these are great. But acting like this is a flaw of the system comes off as desperately trying to find a problem that isn't there. It's showing what can be done in the system, not the system itself. That every trap doesn't land doesn't mean the system is fatally flawed, but rather certain things just aren't as well-built as others. Stop trying to extrapolate a few things into something bigger.
For instance, if you suddenly hear the spooky tunes of an unseen orchestra, what do you do?
Do you
a) scream at the top of your lungs to drown out the noise?
b) try to frighten the ghostly performers to stop?
c) just run away?
d) bring out an instrument of your own to play a happier tune, thus disabling the trap?
e) attack the ghosts with your magic weapon?
f) start to blather prayers in the hopes you can dispel the trap?
g) actually cast Dispel Magic to dispel the magic?
I'm assuming you're talking about
Dance of Death, so let's go over these.
A) Doesn't really use a skill, so that just comes off as a panic answer. Of course that doesn't work.
B) I find it kind of silly, but I also kind of love it? Being so intimidating that you stop a spectral trap is the sort of coolness I want. This is basically A) with style, and I actually
like it. I'd let this sort of thing succeed in D&D, too, as a sort of legendary "
TURN OUT THOSE LIGHTS!"
C) This technically could work within the actual rules, but I guess you didn't read the trap closely enough to realize it. It's an auditory effect and specifically says that you need to hear it to actually be affected by it. This gives a lot of ways around it that aren't specifically listed in the Hazard itself.
D)
Hell yes. Of
course the bard could rock out and do this. In fact, they already have powers that would work in this situation beyond this (Again, I'll get to it in a minute). But being so awesome at your lute that playing it disrupts an spectral orchestra's deadly tune? What kind of game do you think we're playing?!
E) Worth a shot, but obviously not everything should be able to be hit. It's not bad to have a player make a good guess but fail.
F) Yes, of course. Why shouldn't prayers exorcise spirits? This is like, something I actually
like, and gives interesting ideas for the Religion skill..
G) It's not
magic, though, so of course this doesn't work. It's spiritual, which is why prayers work. Are you the kind of guy who asks why the Wizard doesn't get "Turn Undead"?
Only three of those are correct. And one is clearly better than the other two. I could just make up three answers and claim those are the correct ones, and you wouldn't be able to say I'm wrong - not unless you check the
statistics, so I won't: the correct ways are b, d and f.
First off, only three is
not correct. You
could potentially run away depending on how things are structured. That's explicitly part of the trap, if you actually read the entire thing.
Secondly, two of the three choices are obvious: using Religion against spirits and fighting music with music. I don't see how you couldn't at least get those two. I like that there is a third, less obvious option, even if it's kind of wacky; why not let people use skills and succeed with non-obvious solutions? This is why I don't like the Betrayal: that has two solutions, and the second one is completely not obvious. I get using Occultism against a mind effect because that's part of what Occultism
is, but the Deception one is too clever by half.
Further, there are other options that aren't stupid that you can use to minimize harm or help work around the trap. The Silence, especially the heightened version, nullifies the trap's effects since they are
auditory. And a Bard's Counterperformance would also help give the party defense against its ill-effects. I'm sure there are other things that help against auditory effects, but I'm not going to page through the entire rulebook to find them.
I'd also say that the effect of that trap specifically is interesting because it can potentially give you time to plan things out or use your planning to get rid of the effects while you come up with a counter plan.
I see zero ways of knowing which is which, though. The description just doesn't provide enough to go from in-game description to "I roll Occultism!" for instance. And oh, Occultism actually does nothing against
this trap. It would help against the
previously discussed trap, though.
This is a bad argument. It makes more sense with Plummeting Doom, but that this deals directly with spirits should be the first hint that this is Religion and not Occultism. Not that a roll on Occultism couldn't give you anything, but I get why Occultism also doesn't solve the problem, either.
Spirits mean religion, more generalized mental/psychic effects are Occult. I think Confounding Betrayal isn't particularly well-constructed, but at the same time I also grok why Occultism works for it while Religion doesn't. At the same time, the players not instantly knowing how something works isn't necessarily a problem, especially with this sort of Haunt that gives them time to potentially react and strategize. You picked the wrong Haunt if you want to argue with me on this one.
I haven't the slightest idea of how my players are going to be able to take intelligent action against these traps. That to me is a problem.
Now tell me again how to use a haunt.
I just told you. There are certain Haunts they tried to use as examples that don't work well, but this one? I get this one instantly. It's easily grokked because it works into easy, well-known conceits of the setting and the genre itself. Plus I like the tertiary solution for being goofy. It also gives you time to be wrong without instantly wrecking you because of it.
. but I like the experimentation in the design space this type of hazard exposes. I created a new hazard for a boss fight in The Slithering (to make it harder. yeah! that's right! I'm that guy!), and without the examples given in the CRB and the GMG, including the tables to build my own - I don't think I would've had the confidence to simply create something from scratch. I've really latched onto the whole notion that hazards can and should be used as a kind of Lair action, thus having non-deadly hazards and hazards that are kinda there to make things more difficult in other ways (and requiring more diverse skills to disable/overcome) really resonates with me
