D&D 1E Giving an AD&D feel to 5e

[Musing Mage]

Fewer bonuses starting out.

I remember my son making a fighter when we first started playing 5E, and I knew there was something "wrong" when at 1st level he had a +6 to hit.

Yeah, 5e seems predicated on the notion that players will have more fun if they hit more often, so I've noticed that hits occur about 2/3rds of the time, where in old school (at least at low levels) you were hitting less than 1/3rd of the time.

I have no doubt that lead to the escalation of hit points in 5e, because of the frequency of landing blows they needed to pad the toughness of creatures and characters - whereas in AD&D lower hit points worked because while you weren't being hit as often, when you did hit (or were hit) it meant something.

This is, of course, just speculation... but it adds up.

 

[Musing Mage]

In 5e, you can easily get to 2nd level after your first encounter.

#Truth.

 

[tetrasodium]

Yeah, 5e seems predicated on the notion that players will have more fun if they hit more often, so I've noticed that hits occur about 2/3rds of the time, where in old school (at least at low levels) you were hitting less than 1/3rd of the time.

I have no doubt that lead to the escalation of hit points in 5e, because of the frequency of landing blows they needed to pad the toughness of creatures and characters - whereas in AD&D lower hit points worked because while you weren't being hit as often, when you did hit (or were hit) it meant something.

This is, of course, just speculation... but it adds up.

Having to go from a quick miss>next>miss>next>hit cheers>damage>miss>next> to Hit>damage>hit>damage>hit>damage>miss>next>hit>damage significantly slows down combat with giant bags of hp while reducing the endorphin pump of success & drama waiting for it.

 

[Blue Orange]

"In 5e, you can easily get to 2nd level after your first adventure."

In 5e, you can easily get to 2nd level after your first encounter.

In 6e, you'll start at 2nd level.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I'd just go with the 5e Basic rules + slow natural healing (must spend HD on a long rest to regain HP).

• 4d6 drop lowest
• Proficiency in all saves
• Roll under for ability check
• Rogues gain Expertise, which adds their Proficiency bonus to the stat when rolled an ability check in an area of expertise.

Then create an Advanced document adding:

• Nature cleric (aka Druid) but with a Shapeshift as Channel Divinity at level 6. They can use the druid spell list instead of the cleric's.
• Assassin rogue
• Create a Ranger and Paladin archetypes for the fighter (I'd go with the old UA Scout and Monster Hunter in lieu of the Ranger and Paladin).

 

[dmhelp]

Ok, I enjoy both 1e and 5e. But we never played with weapon speed factors and didn't play with proficiencies. I played 1e a couple of years ago and I thought it was annoying spending 10 rounds of whiffing against the boss in platemail (no fighter /xx strength weapon spec in the party and the players blew their spells too early). I also didn't like it that at high level when only a fighter could hit in combat (you might as well not exist against a hasted weapon speced fighter with a girdle of giant strength).

So the reason I want to modify 5e is because I enjoy the proficiency/bounded accuracy system.

But, especially after TCE, I don't like 5e optimization. It reminds me of 3e, everyone ending up with the same stats. And it reminds me of "the complete" books from 2e. I have a lot more nostalgia for AD&D than 2e.

So after reading all of this I'm thinking:
1. Roll 4d6s (reroll until >= 75 total) and apply standard racial modifiers, max 18 abilities (instead of 20)

2. No Artificers/Sorcerers/Warlocks (Wizards may also pick from Sorcerer or Warlock subclasses); no feats; no standard multiclassing

3. The first 4 ASIs gained instead give a new saving throw proficiency (with ASIs after this being ignored): Fighters & Rogues will have all saves at level 12, Monks at level 14, a Fighter/Rogue at level 10, and other classes at level 16

4. AD&D ("gestalt") multiclassing allowed (non-Human PHB races only) with two classes from two separate groups: Barbarian/Fighter/Ranger, Cleric/Druid, Rogue, & Wizard (e.g. Fighter/Wizard is ok, but Barbarian/Fighter is not; Bards/Monks/Paladins may not multiclass)

5. After level 10 only gain 1 hp/level with no con mod, or 3 hp/level if Barbarian/Fighter/Monk/Paladin/Ranger/Rogue

I was torn on including the Fighter/Magic-User/Thief & Fighter/Magic-User/Cleric. But I think game balance wise it may be better not too with how class features are in 5e. I think limiting multiclassing to PHB races and subclasses cuts down on the shenanigans.

A consequence of #5 will be it would be really easy for a high level Assassin to one shot people (especially if they were a demi-human Fighter/Assassin). So I'm not sure if game balance wise it might work out better just using standard 5e hp.

 

[Faolyn]

No new HD after 9th level. Instead, Con bonus, plus 2 hp for martials and 1 hp for everyone else.

No full healing after long rests; require people to spend Hit Dice.

 

[dmhelp]

No full healing after long rests; require people to spend Hit Dice.

That would be reasonable. I also found the healing in AD&D a little annoying. We bascially used to just take multiple rests in a row with the cleric using all of their slots just on healing.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Other things:

• Saves are made ''roll under'' so to remove the need of spell DC.
• Poison deals ongoing damage in addition to the usual Condition.
• Diseased condition makes you unable to regain HP until cured.
• The Old school ''level drain'' can be something like: lose X Max HP and cant add your profiency bonus to anything.
• Instead of replacing ASI with Save proficiency, I'd go with a new skill or weapon proficiency.
• Weapons arent grouped in either martial or simple. Each weapon is its own proficiency. Fighter starts with 5, rogue and cleric with 3, wizard 2. Fighter can specialize with their weapon by spending more than a second proficiency to add their 1/2 Prof. bonus to their damage.

 

[Lanefan]

Weapons arent grouped in either martial or simple. Each weapon is its own proficiency. Fighter starts with 5, rogue and cleric with 3, wizard 2. Fighter can specialize with their weapon by spending more than a second proficiency to add their 1/2 Prof. bonus to their damage.

Good call! I'd add that many classes also have a limited list of weapons from which to choose.

And using a non-proficient weapon gives a to-hit penalty. For this I'd use a straight minus rather than disadvantage for two reasons: one, you can then vary it by class (Warrior-types are at -2 up to Mage-types at -5); and two, it works better if you're using any sort of fumble rules.