D&D General What elements should D&D keep? forums vs. Reddit

[JEB]

Just concluded the Reddit version of the "what elements does D&D need to keep?" poll (posted here and on rpg.net). 225 responses in all, a pretty solid response, and as close to a "public" opinion on the subject as I think I can get.

Just as I compared responses on the "feel" poll, and for "keep" between ENWorld and rpg.net, I figured it would be interesting to compare the 164 "keep" responses between both forums with the 225 on Reddit.

Two caveats:
1. I asked folks who answered on the forums not to respond on Reddit, which may skew things a bit.
2. A reminder that the poll only asked what folks want to keep (i.e. "I want this to stay"), so not voting for an item can be either "I don't care" or "I want it gone".

Items in bold are in different tiers between the two sets of responses.

	Forums (ENWorld + rpg.net combined)	Reddit
Very important to keep (80% and up)	Distinct character classes [92.1%] Levels [90.9%] Ability scores (Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Cha) [85.4%] Hit points [82.9%]	Using multiple types of dice [88.9%] Distinct character classes [88.4%] Ability scores (Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Cha) [86.7%] Levels [85.8%] Hit points [84.4%] Armor Class [81.3%]
Important to keep (60% to 80%)	Using multiple types of dice [78.1%] Armor Class [76.2%] Distinct character races/lineages [72.0%] Saving throws [72.0%] Lists of specific spells [66.5%] Initiative [63.4%]	Distinct character races/lineages [79.6%] Saving throws [72.0%] Initiative [71.6%] Lists of specific spells [70.2%] Damage types [62.2%] Lists of specific magic items [60.4%]
Debatable (40% to 60%)	Lists of specific magic items [55.5%] Damage types [48.2%] Advantage/disadvantage [47.0%] Conditions [43.9%] Creature types [43.3%] Multiclassing [43.3%] Lists of specific equipment [43.3%] Experience points [42.7%] Proficiencies [42.7%] Feats [40.2%]	Conditions [56.9%] Creature types [56.0%] Multiclassing [55.6%] Lists of specific equipment [55.1%] Feats [54.7%] Proficiencies [51.1%] Experience points [50.7%] Advantage/disadvantage [48.9%] Hit dice [47.1%] Deities [45.8%] Surprise [42.2%]
Less important to keep (20% to 40%)	Hit dice [37.2%] Backgrounds [36.0%] Deities [31.7%] Alignment [31.1%] Surprise [29.3%] Great Wheel cosmology [20.7%]	Backgrounds [38.7%] Alignment [34.2%] Challenge ratings [30.2%] Great Wheel cosmology [20.4%]
Not important to keep (20% and below)	Challenge ratings [19.5%] World Axis cosmology [9.2%]	World Axis cosmology [8.4%]

Observations:

• There's more overlap between forums and Reddit on "keep" than "feel" overall in the upper and lower tiers, a lot of the percentages are closer together. This might strengthen the argument that these numbers represent D&D fans' views more generally. Or at least the opinions of fans who chat online about D&D...
• In general, stuff in the debatable tier was leaning slightly against keeping on forums (mostly below 50%), and slightly leaning towards keeping (mostly above 50%) on Reddit.
• Using multiple types of dice was popular in both sets of results, but even more so with the Reddit crowd, who rated it #1.
• Levels were a bit less popular on Reddit (but still very high-ranking).
• Distinct character races/lineages are almost in the "very important" tier on Reddit, noticeably more popular than on forums.
• Damage types are significantly more popular on Reddit, which was a big surprise (mostly because I never figured on it being something folks would be passionate about).
• Having lists of specific magic items also just barely squeaks over the border into "important" on Reddit.
• Hit dice, deities, and surprise are all much, much more popular on Reddit than on forums.
• Advantage/disadvantage, one of 5E's signature mechanics, is slightly below 50% support on both sides. Backgrounds are also comparably low, in the high end of "less important".
• Despite alignment's value to memes, that didn't help its popularity on Reddit, only 3.1% more popular.
• Challenge Ratings are much more popular on Reddit, but still very much in the less important side of things.
• No matter where you go, only about 20% of folks actively want to keep the Great Wheel. (Though they certainly outcompete the poor World Axis.)

Here's a final tally of all the votes (389 total) from all sources on the elements D&D should keep:

Very important to keep (80% and up):
Distinct character classes: 350 [89.97%]
Levels: 342 [87.92%]
Ability scores (Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Cha): 335 [86.12%]
Using multiple types of dice: 328 [84.32%]
Hit points: 326 [83.80%]

Important to keep (60% to 80%):
Armor Class: 308 [79.18%]
Distinct character races/lineages: 297 [76.35%]
Saving throws: 280 [71.98%]
Lists of specific spells: 267 [68.64%]
Initiative: 265 [68.12%]

Debatable (40% to 60%):
Lists of specific magic items: 227 [58.35%]
Damage types: 219 [56.30%]
Conditions: 200 [51.41%]
Creature types: 197 [50.64%]
Multiclassing: 196 [50.39%]
Lists of specific equipment: 195 [50.13%]
Feats: 189 [48.59%]
Advantage/disadvantage: 187 [48.07%]
Proficiencies: 185 [47.56%]
Experience points: 184 [47.30%]
Hit dice: 167 [42.93%]

Less important to keep (20% to 40%):
Deities: 155 [39.85%]
Backgrounds: 146 [37.53%]
Surprise: 143 [36.76%]
Alignment: 128 [32.90%]
Challenge ratings: 100 [25.71%]
Great Wheel cosmology: 80 [20.57%]

Not important to keep (20% and below):
World Axis cosmology: 34 [8.74%]

 

[Mind of tempest]

interesting we seem to be slowly learning what a fair amount of people care about.

 

[Fenris-77]

Fenris-77 backs away very slowly from the OP hoping he doesn't attack...

 

[Mind of tempest]

Fenris-77 backs away very slowly from the OP hoping he doesn't attack...

why?

 

[Fenris-77]

Because this is going to be a fecal free for all... Have fun though!

 

[Mirtek]

interesting we seem to be slowly learning what a fair amount of people care about.

225 = fair amount?

 

[EzekielRaiden]

225 = fair amount?

Technically, it's 389 if we count all respondents (assuming no one did a bad and voted more than once).

You are, however, correct that even if sampling bias weren't a problem, this is a pretty small poll to draw conclusions from, in absolute terms. In relative terms, this isn't the worst thing in the world. We just have to keep in mind that these are merely a best guess at real values, and not hard, reliable data.

But then again, WotC is really, really bad at writing surveys. Dunno if you guys remember, but back during the Next Playtest, we literally had some questions that were "what did you like most about <foo>?" or "Do you agree this captures the spirit of <bar>?" Collecting real data about the preferences of players is a nontrivial effort even when you have the reach and power of the actual creators.

 

[TheSword]

So I hate to pick apart the polling but the questions don’t actually give the information that the OP is purporting to display.

OP asked 225 people “Which of the following elements should D&D keep in future editions?”

But that question doesn’t give any idea as to which elements are important to keep. The respondent could care trivially about retaining the dice in an RPG or could feel very strongly about retaining levels. And vice versa.

@JEB you have equated frequency of choice with importance. When in fact these aren’t the same thing. Based on what I said above most respondents feeling trivially affectionate about dice for instance in a ‘sure why not, can’t think of anything better kind of way’ would appear to make dice extremely important to keep.

Whereas some people may feel very strongly that deities should be kept, but others trivially unconcerned - leading the suggestion that it is less important. Where in fact it could be very important to those 39%.

I think if you wanted to make these kinds of polls actually speak to importance you need to ask that question. Probably by asking people to rank their choices of importance. It will give you far more useful data.

I’m not sure forum posters are the most representative group of general public opinion. I appreciate your point that it’s limited by medium and resources. if you wanted to reflect public opinion, what be worthwhile might be a smaller study of casual players to see if their choices correlate with the findings of forum goers.

 

[TheSword]

But then again, WotC is really, really bad at writing surveys. Dunno if you guys remember, but back during the Next Playtest, we literally had some questions that were "what did you like most about <foo>?" or "Do you agree this captures the spirit of <bar>?" Collecting real data about the preferences of players is a nontrivial effort even when you have the reach and power of the actual creators.

It depends what the survey was for. They may have wanted to confirm their existing strategy rather than generate new ideas. On the other hand qualitative questions like ‘what do you like most?’ is not necessarily a wasted question if they are trying to generate new ideas.

 

[JEB]

So I hate to pick apart the polling but the questions don’t actually give the information that the OP is purporting to display.

OP asked 225 people “Which of the following elements should D&D keep in future editions?”

But that question doesn’t give any idea as to which elements are important to keep. The respondent could care trivially about retaining the dice in an RPG or could feel very strongly about retaining levels. And vice versa.

By the instructions I included with the poll, I told folks to vote for an element if they actively wanted to keep it. I think it's reasonable to assume that if you wanted a particular element to remain in the game, keeping it would be important to you; and also that if you don't actively want a particular element to remain in the game, keeping it is not important to you. And that these totals therefore reflect opinions as to how important or not important keeping an element is to respondents.

@JEB you have equated frequency of choice with importance. When in fact these aren’t the same thing. Based on what I said above most respondents feeling trivially affectionate about dice for instance in a ‘sure why not, can’t think of anything better kind of way’ would appear to make dice extremely important to keep.

Whereas some people may feel very strongly that deities should be kept, but others trivially unconcerned - leading the suggestion that it is less important. Where in fact it could be very important to those 39%.

I imagine that for the 39% that actively wanted to keep deities, it was pretty important to them; they did, after all, actively say they wanted to keep them. That doesn't change the fact that 61% were, at best, indifferent to keeping deities.

I think if you wanted to make these kinds of polls actually speak to importance you need to ask that question. Probably by asking people to rank their choices of importance. It will give you far more useful data.

I’m not sure forum posters are the most representative group of general public opinion. I appreciate your point that it’s limited by medium and resources. if you wanted to reflect public opinion, what be worthwhile might be a smaller study of casual players to see if their choices correlate with the findings of forum goers.

There's certainly room to capture more nuance about folks' opinions. And if you're interested in pursuing such polls and surveys to get a better response, I certainly encourage it!