D&D General The big bad evil... Red Herring

[J.Quondam]

I'm working on an adventure involving a long-lost Fauxgyptian tomb that also serves as a prison for an immortal being. It was intentially designed (by it's original builders, I mean) to lead graverobbers to a fake BBEG and false treasure, so that the imprisoned baddie would remain undiscovered.

There are a number of hooks to get the PCs to the site, including a few based on old lore about the tomb. If PCs end up following one of those lore-based leads (and therefore likely tasked with defeating a particular baddie and/or recovering a particular artifact), it's possible that they'll end up delving, defeating the false boss and grabbing the fake loot... only to discover after the fact that they've fallen for a big red herring.

I've tried to make clear the differentiation between the real and the fake boss/treasure. The map includes at least three ways (via secret doors, traps, abandoned excavations) to get to the real BBEG. There are also lots of clues lying around (eg, written descriptions of MacGuffin, interative traps incorporating hints, pictures of the real BBEG on the walls, etc) that should tip off attentive players. The "real deals" and the red herrings don't actually look or behave much alike, except superficially. Finally, there are even a couple NPCs who can suggest the correct path, if encountered.

The questions are:

(1) How do players (or How would you) react to finishing an adventure only to find they've been deceived?

(2) Is a big red herring like this "okay," as long as players been provided sufficient clues? (Any suggestions to ensure crystal clear clues; or pointers to published adventures using major red herring would be helpful, too.)

(3) What are some ideas for handling the fallout from this: abandoning the quest, returning to the site (if PCs decide to follow up), etc?


As always, thanks in advance for any advice!
.

 

[Dioltach]

I think that just by asking these questions you're acknowledging that your players will be annoyed.

In my experience, most players don't like being fooled, particularly just at the moment of their triumph. Perhaps give them an either-or situation, where they have to decide which of the two evils to choose, or else delay the reveal until much later.

 

[nevin]

I'd make sure they get some very good rewards in the process and then they get to have the real adventure figuring out how to destroy or imprison(again ) the BBEG. As long as they get to be heroes and the game progresses this kind of game can work. If it's just a game where BBEG escapes and destroys everything and they start from scratch trying to rebuild the world just Don't really, just Don't. Everybody who has DM'd for a long time has had that desire to make the PC's crawl through glass, as if they were in a really bad Anime, it's no fun for anyone but the DM.

 

[hopeless]

Perhaps leave clues suggesting this is just one tomb containing keys to a hidden fifth tomb and unknown to them these keys are designed to make the fifth tomb more secure as each one adds an additional security measure to keep the fifth tomb sealed?
They assume the four tombs are crypts for the lieutenants of the BBEG, but was actually used to set up an additional safety measure like causing a wall of stone or prismatic shield to be added to the actual tomb?
So unless they realize the first tomb is also the site of the fifth it could lead to some hijinx if they've found all four keys. Employing them only to discover they don't appear to work until returning to check out the tombs they discover the first one has been turned into an earth mote tearing itself from the ground and ascending high into the sky for the final encounter.
The PCs unaware that defeating this tomb opens the fifth tomb and this act gets them sent into the shadowfell, where they realize everything has been leading up to this.
The earth mote in the shadowfell is the location of the fifth tomb and they're now stuck without a way home unless they can prevent the BBEG waking up and leaving his tomb for like the first Brendan Fraser Mummy movie it will need to feed on the PCs to restore themselves?!
I wonder what it would take before they understand the dm isn't playing silly beggars they're actually making it clear this is a really dumb thing to do?!

 

[Quartz]

Fake / decoy tombs are historically accurate, but don't make it too difficult for the players. As I said in another thread, neither you nor they are Sherlock Holmes.

 

[hopeless]

I recall an actual play regarding an Egyptian dig that uncovered what they thought was a mine but was actually the tomb of a fallen cleric who was buried alive.
I think I'm overlooking a few details but when the expedition returned to London the event revealing what they had found was started it was to discover something was preying on the expedition members.
Eventually they figured out they had to return to the dig site as every full moon the entity was able to possess another member of the expedition unless they managed to fight it off.
They basically had to team up as up to that point they couldn't fight it off alone and eventually got back to the dig site and performed a ceremony to lay the entity to rest once more.
I'm sure I've got a few of those details wrong it was done by the same people who did their own version of a homebrew superhero setting using the Savage Worlds rules.
I'll go double check see if I still have the details.

EDIT: Ideology of Madness the Curse of Khantukh!
They were using the Chill rules system I really need to listen to that again!

 

[overgeeked]

I'm working on an adventure involving a long-lost Fauxgyptian tomb that also serves as a prison for an immortal being. It was intentially designed (by it's original builders, I mean) to lead graverobbers to a fake BBEG and false treasure, so that the imprisoned baddie would remain undiscovered.

There are a number of hooks to get the PCs to the site, including a few based on old lore about the tomb. If PCs end up following one of those lore-based leads (and therefore likely tasked with defeating a particular baddie and/or recovering a particular artifact), it's possible that they'll end up delving, defeating the false boss and grabbing the fake loot... only to discover after the fact that they've fallen for a big red herring.

I've tried to make clear the differentiation between the real and the fake boss/treasure. The map includes at least three ways (via secret doors, traps, abandoned excavations) to get to the real BBEG. There are also lots of clues lying around (eg, written descriptions of MacGuffin, interative traps incorporating hints, pictures of the real BBEG on the walls, etc) that should tip off attentive players. The "real deals" and the red herrings don't actually look or behave much alike, except superficially. Finally, there are even a couple NPCs who can suggest the correct path, if encountered.

The questions are:

(1) How do players (or How would you) react to finishing an adventure only to find they've been deceived?

I'd walk and never return to the table.

(2) Is a big red herring like this "okay," as long as players been provided sufficient clues? (Any suggestions to ensure crystal clear clues; or pointers to published adventures using major red herring would be helpful, too.)

No. It's not. Not at all. It's a literal waste of time. Your players will generally be their own red herrings. There's no need to add in some of your own, especially not on that scale.

(3) What are some ideas for handling the fallout from this: abandoning the quest, returning to the site (if PCs decide to follow up), etc?

Recognize it's a terrible idea and don't do it in the first place. Therefore no fallout.

 

[hopeless]

Well one suggestion was to have them discover a tomb that's apparently already been looted, but in truth its a charade for the true tomb.
Having there be secret passages and hidden chambers would be something your players should be prepared for so maybe establish the means they would have to accomplish to access the true tomb?
Having them delve within to discover the lever of mechanisms required to open the true tomb.
However what if they DID succeed, but have no idea they have done so?
You could always have their patron thank them for their efforts as its clear the place has been cleared already so they plan to establish a team of researchers to go over the site for any details that might help with their next mission.
What they don't know is that their patron knew full well of the hidden tomb and needed the PCs out of the way so he could access the hidden part that remained untouched unaware of the threat lurking within or better yet thought he could deal with it?
Imagine a fortnight later they're called in as their former patron has been found dead along with his researchers not necessarily within the tomb, but because they're connected with it they're suspected of having been responsible for whatever happened.
The patron's family seeking revenge and an answer to their predicament has the PC's framed to force them to return to the site to find out what actually happened perhaps first to the estate of their late patron to uncover what killed them?
You could have a few sessions just dealing with the aftermath of the first adventure alone before leading them back there...
Wouldn't even be necessary to fool your players just reveal over time they didn't get the necessary information that would have revealed the truth about the site and eventually hint had they had done so they wouldn't have survived...
So it wasn't a case of messing them around you were legitimately giving them character arcs that involved them learning what they were up against and time to figure out what they could do...
Now if the researchers included friends or family of the PCs well...

 

[Rob Kuntz]

You can have no reaction to something you know nothing about.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

You can have no reaction to something you know nothing about.

Exactly.

It sounds like the OP is intent in burying this pretty deep and actively creating a situation where it's entirely possible the players will walk away saying "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" and have no idea that they were duped, and no real way to find out.

If you then bring back the BBEG saying "Aha but you were tricked by my fake tomb", it isn't going to make the players go "Oh wow his Moriarty-like brilliance astounds me!", it's more likely they'll go "LOL DM is sad his villain got defeated, and has come up with a really contrived and nonsensical way to bring him back...".

Unless you introduce an element of doubt as to which is the right tomb, in the open, early-on, it's likely to just seem cheap and contrived to say "Oh but that wasn't the right one!".

I don't really get what's supposed to be fun or interesting about this entire scenario myself. It sounds like OP intends to drop a load of false lore on the PCs, have them follow it with no reason to think it's not valid, and then go "LOL GOTCHA!!!" at the end in some unexplained and possibly meta way. Why?

A more interesting scenario might be a race-against-time, with a villain already established to be "tricky", who you knew was in one of these places, but had to work out which one. Then it's at least conscious and there's a consequence which makes sense for not picking the right one, and a way to mitigate it, by trying to speed things up and taking more risks and less rests. But this is just "the princess is in another castle" at best.