D&D General The big bad evil... Red Herring

[Krachek]

Sufficient clue in DnD is often grossly exaggerated by DM.
It is a common to be fooled by an enemy in movie plot, but hero has plenty of time to win the game after all.
In movie plot you also have all the flashback, the additional information to fully understand the problem, in DnD players has partial clue, foggy memory from game played months ago,
so players are far less receptive to bad news.
another trick from movie plot is to let the players know that it’s a trap, but other npc don’t know and don’t care about the trap and will do trigger it.

 

[J.Quondam]

Exactly.

It sounds like the OP is intent in burying this pretty deep and actively creating a situation where it's entirely possible the players will walk away saying "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" and have no idea that they were duped, and no real way to find out.

If you then bring back the BBEG saying "Aha but you were tricked by my fake tomb", it isn't going to make the players go "Oh wow his Moriarty-like brilliance astounds me!", it's more likely they'll go "LOL DM is sad his villain got defeated, and has come up with a really contrived and nonsensical way to bring him back...".

Unless you introduce an element of doubt as to which is the right tomb, in the open, early-on, it's likely to just seem cheap and contrived to say "Oh but that wasn't the right one!".

I don't really get what's supposed to be fun or interesting about this entire scenario myself. It sounds like OP intends to drop a load of false lore on the PCs, have them follow it with no reason to think it's not valid, and then go "LOL GOTCHA!!!" at the end in some unexplained and possibly meta way. Why?

A more interesting scenario might be a race-against-time, with a villain already established to be "tricky", who you knew was in one of these places, but had to work out which one. Then it's at least conscious and there's a consequence which makes sense for not picking the right one, and a way to mitigate it, by trying to speed things up and taking more risks and less rests. But this is just "the princess is in another castle" at best.

Yeah... so you could have explained yourself here without faux-righteous indignation & snide speculations of my intentions, especially given some misunderstanding of the scenario. (That's my fault, of course, by not explaining it clearly.)
I'm asking for genuine advice here; and I'm asking because I really am unsure how to handle it. I haven't considered running (or participated in) a scenario like this before. I'm seeing that there might be a good reason for that!

That said, there's definitely a broad negative reaction to this! So I'll likely abandon or at least rethink the whole premise.

Thanks all for the input. (Most of) it has been very helpful!

 

[Eltab]

I have xeroxes of a 3e mini-adventure where the "real tomb" is reached via teleport circle from the "fake tomb" (which is actually BBEG's chief lieutenant). The rooms on both ends of the teleport link are identical so it is not immediately obvious you moved. BBEG will pursue you through the link if you just leave his inner sanctum, not hide until you depart the tomb.
Might be found in 3e Sandstorm but not sure.

This might go over better than the original proposal.

 

[MarkB]

The only way you can reasonably make the scenario work is if getting through the fake tomb is an essential step along the way to finding the real BBEG.

One way to do that would be to have the fake boss having worked out who imprisoned him and why, and plotting his revenge against them. At some point in the boss fight he parleys, offering to reveal something the PCs need to know. If they bargain with him, he tells them enough to set them on the right path. If they kill him anyway, they find his vengeful rant scrawled on the inside of the lid of his sarcophagus, containing the information they need.

 

[Doug McCrae]

I'm working on an adventure involving a long-lost Fauxgyptian tomb that also serves as a prison for an immortal being. It was intentially designed (by it's original builders, I mean) to lead graverobbers to a fake BBEG and false treasure, so that the imprisoned baddie would remain undiscovered..

I think that's a good idea, one I'd have no problem with as a player. PCs receiving incomplete, false, or even misleading information at the start of a mission is pretty standard in traditional rpgs. Distinguishing between the fake BBEG/treasure and real BBEG/treasure seems like it could be an interesting challenge and it adds an unusual twist. One thing one must avoid as a GM is the players being unable to find the adventure altogether so they end up wandering aimlessly. But I don't think that's the case here. The fake BBEG and treasure are content that can be interacted with in an interesting way.

 

[Rob Kuntz]

I suggest a poem about the real buried King noting his implements of state, crown, orb and scepter, intricately described. Then the BBEG has such implements as well BUT they are not "quite" as the ancient lore poem described, leaving it up to the PCs to thereafter write off the mix-up in descriptions to misinterpretation by the inditer about the kingly artifacts or to... This is not right, it may be fake! My two ancient coppers.

 

[aco175]

I could see something where the PCs find out about the secret tomb, even though they do not know the location. The clue is in the false tomb. I can also see a series of tombs where the layout is similar and a secret door is in the same location. The real tomb has the secret door in another location, but an earlier clue giver the PCs a hint.

I do not think I would have a problem with being led to a false tomb. I would like to have the real tomb revealed at some point and would favor having hints along the way.

 

[Mort]

I could see something where the PCs find out about the secret tomb, even though they do not know the location. The clue is in the false tomb. I can also see a series of tombs where the layout is similar and a secret door is in the same location. The real tomb has the secret door in another location, but an earlier clue giver the PCs a hint.

I do not think I would have a problem with being led to a false tomb. I would like to have the real tomb revealed at some point and would favor having hints along the way.

I think this is the key. There has to be plenty of telegraphing to the "real" tomb, where at some point the PCs should be guaranteed an "aha" moment.

Finding out you've been wrong /duped can be fun as long as it leads to somewhere fun for the PCs - especially when they can finally get to the correct tomb.

 

[Scott Christian]

(1) How do players (or How would you) react to finishing an adventure only to find they've been deceived?

I like it as a player if it is done well, as do my players. But, I have to be honest, it can be a crap shoot. It sounds like you are doing it right. But mysteries are tough in RPG's because they are nothing like books or movies. They have an interaction that can throw things way out of balance and spoil any "surprise" that was intended.

(2) Is a big red herring like this "okay," as long as players been provided sufficient clues? (Any suggestions to ensure crystal clear clues; or pointers to published adventures using major red herring would be helpful, too.)

Absolutely okay. I mean, it is an entire pillar of exploration - to solve a mystery. And most mysteries have red herrings. As far as providing clues, I am always amazed as to how many clues are missed, or things that are not clues are examined with such indelible pervasiveness. I mean, I am sure everyone in here has experienced the group that spends forty minutes talking with the stable boy to find out why the dragon flew away, even though the stable boy wasn't even written down on your paper or in the adventure.

(3) What are some ideas for handling the fallout from this: abandoning the quest, returning to the site (if PCs decide to follow up), etc?

That is a good question. Unfortunately, I really think that the only answer is the one that will work for your table. It sounds to me, with all the clues, and the setup, you won't have any fallout.

Good luck and enjoy playing. Sounds like a fun adventure.

 

[nevin]

If the people who imprisoned the BbEG were serious I d think the fake tomb would have the real story explaining it all, then lots of traps to kill those that ignore the warning.

Then the real tomb would have all those warnings again.

Of course those who want him released my spin a different story to the PCs. In that kind of case they've been warned twice. The really helpful baddies who've been their friends to that point are telling them to not to believe the warnings on the tombs. They either do and fight the guys who want it open or they believe their "friends" and deal with the consequences. This way the onus is completely on them