D&D General Discuss: Combat as War in D&D

[FrogReaver]

Claim: If the enemies ever adopted a true combat as war mindset then the PC's would eventually be crushed. This does not happen. Therefore, the enemies do not treat combat as War. There's something that seem inherently unfair about that and yet many still find Combat as War fun.

Discuss!

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Can you elaborate? I’ve no idea what on Earth you mean by most of that.

 

[DemoMonkey]

The monsters aren't trying to win as hard as the PCs would in their place. In a "combat as war" mindset, the players plan their attacks in a way that gives the enemy as little chance to do anything at all as possible. If you can destroy the enemy before they even take an action - or better yet, even know you are there - it is "ideal".

Whether this leads to heroic or exciting action is irrelevant, and in some ways, actively discouraged.

With rare exceptions, the monsters don't behave the same way. Partly because they are usually not the tactical aggressors.

 

[bedir than]

With rare exceptions, the monsters don't behave the same way. Partly because they are usually not the tactical aggressors.

This comes down to DM fiat though. Nothing about the game dictates monster behavior and attitude.

 

[Krachek]

Art of war #1
Try to arrange battle with odds 10:1 in your favor, and avoid battle with 1:10.
So Dm should arrange deadly encounter most of the time, and when not enemies should flee right at the star of the encounter.
Otherwies try to be the most bad ass possible during fight, targeting low ac, hitting opponents dying to make sure they don’t come back, retreat and regroup, make false big fight to trigger big spells and ressource, use hit and run, always try to find and target opponents weak point. On the medium run it should be very frustrating for players.

 

[Hriston]

Claim: If the enemies ever adopted a true combat as war mindset then the PC's would eventually be crushed. This does not happen. Therefore, the enemies do not treat combat as War. There's something that seem inherently unfair about that and yet many still find Combat as War fun.

Discuss!

I don't understand the "This does not happen" part of your claim. Are you saying that TPK's don't happen?

 

[FrogReaver]

The monsters aren't trying to win as hard as the PCs would in their place. In a "combat as war" mindset, the players plan their attacks in a way that gives the enemy as little chance to do anything at all as possible. If you can destroy the enemy before they even take an action - or better yet, even know you are there - it is "ideal".

Whether this leads to heroic or exciting action is irrelevant, and in some ways, actively discouraged.

With rare exceptions, the monsters don't behave the same way. Partly because they are usually not the tactical aggressors.

Which is precisely the idea the OP was bringing forward. That you have to have monsters/enemies not engage in combat as war. Why aren't enemies in such campaigns trying to destroy the PC's before they even take an action. That's the unfairness I'm talking about. Combat as war is perceived as PC's being great and intelligent tacticians - but in reality it's just enemies being imbeciles by never adopting actual 'war' style tactics in order to defeat the PC's.

Beating the enemy in a decisive manner can certainly be fun. Oftentimes even more fun than winning a battle intentionally set up to be 'fair'. The issue I'm bringing up about combat as war isn't whether it's fun or not - it's that the model inherently removes the ability of enemies to threaten the PC's in like manner.

 

[FrogReaver]

Art of war #1
Try to arrange battle with odds 10:1 in your favor, and avoid battle with 1:10.
So Dm should arrange deadly encounter most of the time, and when not enemies should flee right at the star of the encounter.

I'd say it should be more than a deadly encounter. More like a triple deadly encounter at minimum

 

[DemoMonkey]

"This comes down to DM fiat though. Nothing about the game dictates monster behavior and attitude."

There is no situation in which the behaviour of the monsters is not DM fiat. The monsters aren't actually, y'know. Real.

What was your point?

 

[FrogReaver]

I don't understand the "This does not happen" part of your claim. Are you saying that TPK's don't happen?

The existence of a TPK isn't related to whether the enemies treat combat as war.