D&D 5E Revisiting RAW Darkness Spell

[FrogReaver]

I have read it length, multiple times. (And I corrected the mistake I made regarding who was replying to which post.) I stand by my reading that @Crimson Longinus was generally discussing (over the course of several posts) how they resolve the edge case of backlit darkness caused by two light sources with a stretch of darkness in between. They determine that the light level in the backlit squares counts as dim light from the perspective of observers who can see the backlight. That seems reasonable to me, and no more in violation of the text than ruling that observers who are effectively suffering from the blinded condition with respect to a backlit wall can nonetheless see that wall's silhouette rather than whatever is behind it.


Since that's not how you interpret the discussion, perhaps some of the current disagreement is because you and @Crimson Longinus were misunderstanding what each other was trying to convey.

IMO. It's not so much about what Crimson was speaking about, it's what everyone else was replying to him about. But I don't think this is a worthwhile tangent to continue for the discussion so I'm bowing out of it, but feel free to add whatever you want about it - i won't be offended if you do - i just won't be responding on this part further.

 

[Xetheral]

IMO. It's not so much about what Crimson was speaking about, it's what everyone else was replying to him about. But I don't think this is a worthwhile tangent to continue for the discussion so I'm bowing out of it, but feel free to add whatever you want about it - i won't be offended if you do - i just won't be responding on this part further.

I'm fine with dropping it too. Thanks for letting me know.

 

[FrogReaver]

Thanks for clarifying. To make sure I understand correctly, you would rule that a dragon passing in front of the 3/4 moon at night would never be visible as a silhouette? We know that the dim light radius of the moon on most moonlit nights does not reach the surface of the earth, so the area the dragon occupies is in darkness. (PHB 183).

I typically run a moon like that as providing dim light unless you are under a canopy of trees or something similar. I'm curious on where you are getting the ruling that it doesn't provide dim light to the earth? I base mine on having walked my friend house many time when living on the farm by nothing more than moonlight and it wasn't like he was a next door neighbor. So a dragon passing in front of that moon would be a sihlouette but he's in dimlight so that doesn't really help illustrate what you were trying.

I'm trying to think of an example that would.

Honestly, I think most sihlouettes are caused more by camera photography and photoshop than they are by actual eyeballs. I can't think of the last time I've ever seen an actual sihlouette in person.

 

[Maxperson]

@Maxperson I think this post explains it fairly well

Except that if Darkness was cast, dog and cat couldn't see each other because the spell would prevent it. It becomes an area of pitch black in the middle that non-magical illumination doesn't enter. Bunny WOULD be impossible to see, without True Sight or magical light to negate the darkness, because RAW says darkness makes a creature effectively blind when trying to see something in that area.

It was a great explanation for normal light and darkness, though.

 

[Xetheral]

I typically run a moon like that as providing dim light unless you are under a canopy of trees or something similar. I'm curious on where you are getting the ruling that it doesn't provide dim light to the earth? I base mine on having walked my friend house many time when living on the farm by nothing more than moonlight and it wasn't like he was a next door neighbor. So a dragon passing in front of that moon would be a sihlouette but he's in dimlight so that doesn't really help illustrate what you were trying.

I'm trying to think of an example that would.

Honestly, I think most sihlouettes are caused more by camera photography and photoshop than they are by actual eyeballs. I can't think of the last time I've ever seen an actual sihlouette in person.

PHB 183 says: "Characters face darkness outdoors at night (even most moonlit nights)...."

I entirely agree that treating characters as effectively suffering the from the blinded condition with respect to their environment on a moonlit night does not match real world experience.

 

[FrogReaver]

Except that if Darkness was cast, dog and cat couldn't see each other because the spell would prevent it.

Many run the spell that way, but read the spell again - it doesn't actually say it does this. In absence of it saying it works differently than normal darkness it seems safe to rule it as functioning as normal darkness (save for the few caveats listed in the spell).

 

[Maxperson]

Many run the spell that way, but read the spell again - it doesn't actually say it does this. In absence of it saying it works differently than normal darkness it seems safe to rule it as functioning as normal darkness (save for the few caveats listed in the spell).

So you think that some sort of weird darkness happens where light doesn't illuminate it, but you can see through it, but not into it?

Edit: Oh, and makes it so that if you have darkvision, you cannot see through it no matter what.

 

[FrogReaver]

PHB 183 says: "Characters face darkness outdoors at night (even most moonlit nights)...."

I entirely agree that treating characters as effectively suffering the from the blinded condition with respect to their environment on a moonlit night does not match real world experience.

Interesting, i'd never paid much attention to that detail. Looks like I'm not playing by RAW lol. I think one could take this fact a slightly different way that's interesting - that darkness by RAW covers areas quite a bit more lit than what most of us think of as darkness.

I really don't know about the dragon by RAW then. I'll have to think on that some more.

 

[FrogReaver]

So you think that some sort of weird darkness happens where light doesn't illuminate it, but you can see through it, but not into it?

Sounds like regular darkness to me other than the normal light not illuminating it.

 

[Maxperson]

PHB 183 says: "Characters face darkness outdoors at night (even most moonlit nights)...."

I entirely agree that treating characters as effectively suffering the from the blinded condition with respect to their environment on a moonlit night does not match real world experience.

It says that they face darkness, not that they are always in darkness. I expect it means cloud cover, passing through woods, or some other reason why even in the real world, we can face darkness even on moonlit nights.