D&D 5E Dashing with flying magic items, yea or nay?

[Sword of Spirit]

So I did some research into the history of the flying items. The carpets of flying have traditionally been the most powerful, and the winged boots and broom of flying have traditionally been similar in power level. The wings of flying varied drastically in function and relative power level over the editions.

One factor that I noticed that is highly relevant is that of maneuverability class/rating. Those new to 5e might be unfamiliar with it. Basically, different flying creatures/items could maneuver better than others in prior editions. This included how sharply they could turn/dive/climb, how hard it was to gain altitude, and whether or not they had to maintain forward motion to stay aloft. 5e has none of that. Anything with a fly speed can move in 3-dimensions as easily as in 2. This was a huge balancing factor in previous editions that is completely absent.

For example, the carpet of flying could hover, while the broom of flying could not (and had to keep moving forward or crash). Both carpet and broom had low maneuverability--making them difficult to employ in combat, while wings and boots had high maneuverability and were more or less designed for combat.

Adding those factors back into 5e is not of interest to me, but tweaking the broom of flying to make it play well with the others is. Basically, it should be a primarily Exploration Pillar item, not a Combat Pillar item. If players are choosing it over the same rarity winged boots in combat, something is very broken.

Before we really talk about how to do that, we need to look at the ramifications of different interpretations of the broom's features. I've made some tables comparing the various items. The first table is by the book (with question marks on the broom), the next is giving the broom a generous interpretation, and the last is giving the broom a weaker interpretation.

Looking at the charts, the generous interpretation really should make it a Very Rare item, without or without the capability to Dash, and whether or not the carpet can Dash. It's just that good.

The weakest interpretation that I can easily extract from the text still should have it sitting at Rare. Sure, you have to put some thought into using it effectively, but it's clearly better the boots (with a light enough character), given that it lacks attunement and is almost as fast without Dashing as the boots are with Dashing. One might say (as I might myself) that that weaker interpretation doesn't look that much better than the boots. This is true, but it's at least as much better than the boots as the wings are! We see from the wings that the higher top speed is considered very heavily in the power assessment, since that's literally the only thing the Rare wings have over the Uncommon boots (unless you factor in that one might possible layer two cloaks but not wear two pairs of boots). In every other way the boots are superior to the wings, yet the wings are considered more powerful. Because the power level of the wings has varied significantly from edition to edition, and they could therefore have placed them wherever they wanted, I'm going to assume that the relative ranking was an intentional design consideration rather than an oversight (though it may have been). The broom of flying with the weak interpretation is roughly comparable to the wings of flying and clearly as much better than the winged boots as the wings of flying are, justifying it being given a minimum rarity of Rare.

On the issue of Dashing, I think it's important to remember that you can't Dash all day--only for short periods of time. The DMG Chase rules make this explicit in the case of chases. You can also determine that by looking at the daily travel rates the game gives for characters. The vehicles that the game has published do not have the capability to Dash. If they did, they would move twice as fast as they are described moving daily, because they don't get Exhausted like creatures and could just Dash all day long. Given than the carpet and the broom are independent devices described with their own movement speed (as opposed to worn items), it seems reasonable to treat them as vehicles and disallow Dashing. (I'd personally have mounting the broom take half your movement just like mounting a steed, but let you walk onto the carpet normally if it's low enough. That's in addition to using an action to activate them.)

So I could just go for the weak interpretation of the broom of flying and up its rarity to Rare. But I'd rather not. That messes up the random magic item tables I so love, and makes the broom a super-star in the Combat Pillar as well as the Exploration Pillar, rather than maintaining the intended balance of broom as entry level Exploration item, boots as entry level Combat item, wings as superior Combat item and carpet as superior Exploration item.

I'm kind of stuck.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Sure it does. The PC decides where it goes, so the PC is driving it.

It doesn't actually say "the PC decides where it goes" when they are riding it. It says that when it's not being ridden you can tell it where to go and it travels there by itself. So it doesn't need steering.

It would certainly be a lot better balanced if it did need steering, requiring a "use an object" action.

Brooms can't take actions.

It says it can be ridden. Which would make it a mount. Mounts have actions.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I am also talking RAW.

No you aren't. It is not written that the broom replaces your movement. Ergo it cannot be RAW.

The broom has modified your movement. We just have different conclusions.

It's a perfectly valid conclusion, and is the same as I would rule, but it is not RAW.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

So I could just go for the weak interpretation of the broom of flying and up its rarity to Rare. But I'd rather not. That messes up the random magic item tables I so love, and makes the broom a super-star in the Combat Pillar as well as the Exploration Pillar, rather than maintaining the intended balance of broom as entry level Exploration item, boots as entry level Combat item, wings as superior Combat item and carpet as superior Exploration item.

I'm kind of stuck.

Have you considered bringing up the power of the other items so the broom isn't ahead of them? It seems like the issue is that the broom is basically a bit more powerful than it should be, and sure, you could solve that by making it weaker, but you could also give the other items other advantages that made them more viable. I think it's also worth noting that having an item grant you a movement type (and thus Dash) isn't purely beneficial - in some cases it would be more useful to a PC for the item to move independently and without using their Move at all.

 

[Oofta]

This is inductive reasoning, not RAW. A lot of things in D&D fall into the gaps. I like your reasoning, I don't really disagree with it, I just don't agree that it's RAW, because it's inductive reasoning. This is a fine ruling, the issue was that you were presenting it as RAW, not a ruling.

It doesn't actually say "the PC decides where it goes" when they are riding it. It says that when it's not being ridden you can tell it where to go and it travels there by itself. So it doesn't need steering.

It would certainly be a lot better balanced if it did need steering, requiring a "use an object" action.

It says it can be ridden. Which would make it a mount. Mounts have actions.

Either the broom is considered a mount or it's not. If it's a mount (I interpret it that way because you are riding it), use the mounted combat rules. If it's not a mount then it's modifying the user's movement by replacing it, just like the Fly spell. It's vague enough you could also say that it's not covered by the rules at all, but I disagree with that.

IMHO don't think it really matters if my ruling is RAW or not because I don't really believe in RAW as a phrase being particularly useful in many cases. The 5E rules are often open to interpretation, it's not a technical document.

I also think the broom of flying is completely overpowered for it's rarity unless as a DM you rule that you have to use two hands to maintain control which is also probably overkill. When I did have it in my games I required one hand be on the broom at all times which limits it a little bit.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Let's all remember something here: "RAW" means RULED as Written. That means you take what is written and you interpret it (using whatever language composition you have) as the rule you are using.

If the way something is written can be interpreted two different ways... it means it wasn't written clearly enough with only one way evident.

THEREFORE IT'S POINTLESS TO KEEP WAGGING YOUR FINGERS BACK AND FORTH AT EACH OTHER, BECAUSE YOU ARE BOTH RIGHT! YOU'RE BOTH RULING IT BASED ON HOW YOU ARE UNDERSTANDING HOW IT'S WRITTEN!

For pete's sake...

 

[Mannahnin]

For the record, Defcon, I've traditionally seen the first word of that acronym be "Rules", rather than "Ruled". The intended meaning is that "this is just what the rules say, without any judgement or alteration required". Obviously not all situations are that cut-and-dried and sometimes folks misrepresent their own interpretation as being simply the written rules AKA RAW.

That being said, I know it's a bit of a semantic fine point and I generally agree with the thrust of your post.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

THEREFORE IT'S POINTLESS TO KEEP WAGGING YOUR FINGERS BACK AND FORTH AT EACH OTHER, BECAUSE YOU ARE BOTH RIGHT! YOU'RE BOTH RULING IT BASED ON HOW YOU ARE UNDERSTANDING HOW IT'S WRITTEN!

For pete's sake...

My point isn't what is a correct or not interpretation of the rules. My point is that in this case the rule is not written. It simply doesn't say how the broom works (and there is no general rule to fall back on). The DM has to rule however they think best, because there is no RAW.

 

[DEFCON 1]

For the record, Defcon, I've traditionally seen the first word of that acronym be "Rules", rather than "Ruled". The intended meaning is that "this is just what the rules say, without any judgement or alteration required". Obviously not all situations are that cut-and-dried and sometimes folks misrepresent their own interpretation as being simply the written rules AKA RAW.

That being said, I know it's a bit of a semantic fine point and I generally agree with the thrust of your post.

Fair enough. But this exactly highlights why "RAW" is stupid. Because some rules actually aren't written. As @Paul Farquhar points out... they don't think there actually is a rule written in this case for the Boom. Which makes it doubly pointless to care about it, let along spend multiple posts arguing about it.

Everything in this game is RAI-- Rules As Interpreted. Yes, I know that the common phrasing of RAI is "Rules As Intended"... but seeing as how most of the time the writer of said rules is not there to tell you what they intended... what RAI actually represents is you interpreting the language you see and deciding how you use them to rule situations in your game. And when you have that, it doesn't matter at all whether a rule is clear or not. Everything written in the game is interpreted BY YOU in how it's meant to be used. And telling someone else they are wrong makes absolutely zero sense.

 

[NotAYakk]

So I could just go for the weak interpretation of the broom of flying and up its rarity to Rare. But I'd rather not. That messes up the random magic item tables I so love, and makes the broom a super-star in the Combat Pillar as well as the Exploration Pillar, rather than maintaining the intended balance of broom as entry level Exploration item, boots as entry level Combat item, wings as superior Combat item and carpet as superior Exploration item.

I'm kind of stuck.

Sure, so my solution above was that you can sit on the Broom, but the only way you can give it instructions to go somewhere is by using an action and a command word.

In combat, this is akin to a really crappy maneuverability in previous editions. Dashing in-and-out isn't going to work, and even basic stuff (beyond "hover in place") is going to cost actions that will prevent you from attacking.

Out of combat, the action cost is much less important. And you are probably doing less tactical positioning as well. "go right above that tree" every few minutes isn't going to burn your action economy.