D&D 5E D&D compared to Bespoke Genre TTRPGs

[doctorbadwolf]

No. Categorically do not accept. This is—quite literally—the definition of catering to and enabling snowflaking. Communication is a joint responsibility, and anyone demanding that the other party accept all responsibility for potential miscommunications is absurd.

Good thing that isn’t what I said.

What I did say, is that the speaker cannot foist all responsibility onto the listener.

Also hard to take seriously someone who is complaining about “snowflaking”.

 

[Desdichado]

Good thing that isn’t what I said.

What I did say, is that the speaker cannot foist all responsibility onto the listener.

Also hard to take seriously someone who is complaining about “snowflaking”.

Not nearly as hard as it is someone who is doing it. Oh, and "not what I said?" Nobody likes it when someone tries to "lawyer" their way out of what they clearly said by being an overly pedantic nitpicker. Talk about making communication impossible.

 

[tetrasodium]

No, I disagree with the absolute, here. Anyone can take offense -- I could take offense to this statement, claiming that you're now calling me an insensitive jerk who can't communicate. How a reader reads you is as important as what you say in communication. If the statement isn't outright jerky or dismissive, if the reader assumes it there's very little a different form of phrasing will accomplish -- they're disagreeing with the argument, not the phrasing. And, this is the point -- it seems the very suggestion, however phrased, is viewed negatively. That's not on the speaker.

This goes directly to the unspoken assumptions I stated. If you ask how to run Aliens in D&D as you put it here, it's perfectly normal to provide an answer that suggests trying something other than D&D. This is because the asker may not be aware of other options (this happens often), or may not be aware of specific issues in accommodating tropes and themes using D&D. No, what's missing here is the statement that the asker will no consider any other game other than D&D -- this is a hidden assumption. And, it's the assumption that's causing the issue, as the asker is feeling offended that people ignored the ask that they did not state, or has assumed that everyone else has the same base assumption that D&D is the one game acceptable. People are trying to help when they suggest other games -- if it bothers you that they do so, then this is your issue, not theirs.

The assumption of condescension or dismissiveness to an unspoken requirement of the ask is the fault of the speaker -- according to you.

Yes, I can absolutely be condescending and dismissive. I am not so when I suggest a different game may have more success for some things than D&D, though. If you read it that way, it's on you, because the advice is neither dismissive or condescending. The only way that is possible is if you have a massive emotional attachment to D&D being the one true game for you and cannot abide suggestions otherwise. Because, the only thing being suggested is that you can play a different game to get a different result. This isn't offensive in any way. Otherwise people would get upset at suggesting that Risk might give a better result to someone seeking a wargame than Monopoly.

I call BS. This is handwaving and saying that your claims must be taken as the only possibility because you've seen things. I have, personally, told people that they only know D&D and should try other games, but that's been in the context of discussing how other games work differently from D&D and being confronted by a poster that says they only play D&D and that D&D can easily do everything the other game does. However, in saying this, they're usually exposing a massive ignorance that's obvious to anyone that has played the other game. System matters, and can matter a great deal. Your arguments here are effectively that system doesn't matter, that you can just modify D&D to do the other things. However, all of your proposals in this thread are just a slightly different flavor of the core D&D tropes. Nothing at all wrong with this, but it exposes a flaw in your arguments. You further solidify this with your complaints about Monsterhearts, and the mechanic that can mean you find out your character is, in fact, turned on by the bad guy. That's the focus of Monsterhearts -- it isn't playing monsters, it's dealing with the confusion of puberty, high-school drama, and discovering sexuality while also being monsters. If you're complaining that the system does what's on the tin, because it's not what you expect (which is the D&Dism of absolute player control over PC feelings, except for magic, which is given a pass) then you've missed the point altogether. And, that's fine, you don't have to like other games, you can be very comfortable with D&Disms and want to stay there. That's 100% legit. Just, maybe, be clear about that and don't take offense if someone else dares start with a different position.

@Desdichado also touched on it while using a different term, but there is a term for engaging in that sort of behavior with an awful lot of analysis & discussion into it out there. That term is tone policing. Basically it works to derailing a discussion not going as someone likes by fshifting focus away from the message to the messenger. Like the link explains, it can be a big problem online. With that out in the open it might allow for better discussion detched from the initial argument in a way less likely to make any one feel like they are being singled out .

 

[Desdichado]

Yes, I can absolutely be condescending and dismissive.

Hey, Ovi! How's tricks! Long time no see. It seems we always end up in the same types of threads that devolve into wrangling about social issues at the gaming table somehow, doesn't it? I was just commenting about Lash and Ricardo in a youtube video last night. Funny to run into you almost immediately afterwards when I pop in to see if ENW is still doing its typical posterier haberdashery.

 

[MichaelSomething]

I wonder when WOTC will finally get around to making a D&D setting primer for Equestria??

 

[CleverNickName]

Funny to run into you almost immediately afterwards when I pop in to see if ENW is still doing its typical posterier haberdashery.

Hey now, be fair. There are thousands of members on ENWorld, but only a single-digit number of them regularly engage in this brand of posterior haberdashery (nice wordplay, btw). The amount that they repeat themselves tends to conflate their numbers (and importance), but it's not really "typical" of ENWorld as a whole.

 

[Desdichado]

Hey now, be fair. There are thousands of members on ENWorld, but only a single-digit number of them regularly engage in this brand of posterior haberdashery (nice wordplay, btw). The amount that they repeat themselves tends to conflate their numbers (and importance), but it's not really "typical" of ENWorld as a whole.

It's an in-joke from a few years back, actually. Sadly, my experience is that the posterior haberdashers tend to dominate the airwaves here, and the mods tend to amplify their voltage. I haven't been a regular poster here in over ten years specifically because of that. I still pop in from time to time to see if there's any interesting discussions going on, though.

 

[CleverNickName]

It's an in-joke from a few years back, actually. Sadly, my experience is that the posterior haberdashers tend to dominate the airwaves here, and the mods tend to amplify their voltage. I haven't been a regular poster here in over ten years specifically because of that. I still pop in from time to time to see if there's any interesting discussions going on, though.

I disagree. I mean, things weren't great for a while back in the day. But the moderators have started taking a firmer stance in the last year or so, and have gotten pretty good at showing people the door when they start showing their posterior. I think it's gotten harder for certain arguments to get any voltage at all nowadays.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Hey, Ovi! How's tricks! Long time no see. It seems we always end up in the same types of threads that devolve into wrangling about social issues at the gaming table somehow, doesn't it? I was just commenting about Lash and Ricardo in a youtube video last night. Funny to run into you almost immediately afterwards when I pop in to see if ENW is still doing its typical posterier haberdashery.

I got confused by the name change, hobo. How's tricks? I was reminiscing on Lash and his incompetent sidekicks myself a month or so ago. Corey reached out a few years back about doing a Lash and Ricardo comic, but I haven't heard about it since, so I suppose it's on ice.

 

[Desdichado]

I disagree. I mean, things weren't great for a while back in the day. But the moderators have started taking a firmer stance in the last year or so, and have gotten pretty good at showing people the door when they start showing their posterior. I think it's gotten harder for certain arguments to get any voltage at all nowadays.

I guess I have a different definition of what constitutes said posterier haberdashery, then. A brisk argument isn't necessarily a bad thing now and then, but the toxic, passive aggressive behavior that seems much more prevalent nowadays is orders of magnitude more unpleasant.

And that's fine if that's the kind of environment that they want to nurture. I'll just continue to spend much more time elsewhere, and I won't be much missed. It's a mutual separation.

UPDATE: Case in point...