D&D General Do players even like the risk of death?

[doctorbadwolf]

This could result in a TPK, if the party messes up royally and chooses to fight to the death rather than flee. If that is how the campaign ends, so be it.

Do you not find that your monsters lose fights more when they try to kill downed PCs than when they ignore them and try to down standing PCs?

 

[FrogReaver]

So, as an example of what I mean... we can replace death with consequences as worldbuilding.

Back in the day, I found the resurrections mechanics were... dull, and several other things. I found a way to adapt them as a world-element, without changing the spells.

In my usual D&D games, it isn't actually hard to find a divine spellcaster who will bring your character back from the dead, even if you are poor. Because coming back from the dead requires a small bit of divine intervention, whatever god is acting on your behalf gets service from you. Unless you have already been of great service to the deity in question, you came back with a geas/quest to accomplish something that serves the deity's ends.

Boom, instant consequences. You (and likely the rest of the party) have to hare off on some side-quest, taking substantial risks of life, resources, and time, because you died. And, as a GM, I have an instant plot hook to use as I see fit! Bonus!

IMO, That’s still threat of death. It’s just in a more RPG friendly package. If the PCs say screw this quest - what then?

 

[prabe]

Do you not find that your monsters lose fights more when they try to kill downed PCs than when they ignore them and try to down standing PCs?

I find that the monsters I run tend to lose fights regardless.

 

[Haffrung]

In my experience, most players want the possibility of PC death to be on the table. However, they don‘t much like it when PCs die.
It’s like poker: most people like to play with money to lend tension and stakes to the experience. They just don’t like going home with an empty wallet.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I would start by stipulating that Players, almost universally, do not like dying. That's obvious, right?

Yes. Besides, killing players would be illegal in most places. However, some players do not mind their characters dying, and I feel some GMs overestimate how much the players would dislike the character death and end up protecting the characters in manner that becomes apparent to the players and destroys the tension.

 

[CleverNickName]

I like having a risk of death. I've never had a character of mine live to retirement.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

In my experience, most players want the possibility of PC death to be on the table. However, they don‘t much like it when PCs die.
It’s like poker: most people like to play with money to lend tension and stakes to the experience. They just don’t like going home with an empty wallet.

Sure, fair analogy. But it works. Having real stakes really makes the experience more intense, and the price for that is that sometimes you might lose.

I guess the common workaround is the GM to fudge, illusionise and deus ex to make the danger seem more serious than it actually is. And frankly, I have nothing against that in theory. But if the players notice it, then we're back at 'no stakes' territory. I remember one game where I noticed the GM doing this so I started to intentionally play the character stupidly and recklessly; try to get them killed. I didn't succeed, as many ludicrous deus ex machinas ensued!

 

[Oofta]

I think that this is a fascinating question!

I would start by stipulating that Players, almost universally, do not like dying. That's obvious, right? At best, it's an inconvenience (waiting to get resurrected), at worst, it's a disaster (losing a favorite character and starting over).

In fact, that's why you seldom see "perma-deaths" in fictional works of an ongoing nature; you don't want to lose that sense of identification you've had with a fictional character. As much as many people can discuss how awesome it was that some TV program "kept it real" by killing off a character (usually one played by an actor in a RL contract dispute), most people tend to dislike it.

Which brings us to the question of D&D. At some point, either the DM is providing the characters with "plot armor," through calibration of encounters, or not. And this gets to the bigger debate- sort of a rule utilitarianism for both the DM and Players.

Neither the DM nor the Players wants a Player death or ... a TPK. Ever.

But disallowing the possibility tends to de-stabilize the game; it is no longer a "game," and becomes more akin to wish-fulfillment (within the scope of D&D - other rules systems are, of course, different). It is all well and good to pretend that there are other consequences and stakes involved through the creation of narrative drama and what passes for the feels within the game, but unless you severely modify the game, the basic core premises of D&D (zero-to-hero, XP for killin' stuff, get rich or die tryin') make it all reward, no risk. Which ends up not being fun after a while.

Look, it's great to play Civilization, and constantly save the game every turn so I can't make a wrong decision; but that's not really playing or winning. If I need to see how awesome I am, I don't need to play D&D on easy mode, I just need to look in the mirror.

I think pretty much every player I've ever had did not want me to kill them. On the other hand I've had players run characters that were effectively suicidal and, yes, after fair warning I killed off the PC. The player? Worst I've ever done (other than subject them to my DMing) is not invite them back. YMMV.

 

[Imaculata]

Do you not find that your monsters lose fights more when they try to kill downed PCs than when they ignore them and try to down standing PCs?

The monsters die regardless. But if they focus on downed PCs, at least it gets the players sweating a little.

Fighting monsters played by a ruthless DM is exhillerating. My players were terrified of fighting a dragon in my campaign, because they knew that if they were forced to flee, it would just fly after them. It would set fire to their ship, and any town they tried to flee to. But that really adds some stakes to a fight.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I find that the monsters I run tend to lose fights regardless.

Lol fair, but I imagine you know what I mean?