Real Religion in Adventure Design

[Voadam]

That does not mean though I can't have a made up religion with a messianic like representation. What are avatars if not that?

A physical manifestation/incarnation of a god not necessarily intended to be a savior or liberator of people.

Evil gods in D&D have avatars that generally would not be considered messiahs. Even good D&D avatars do not need to be messiahs.

 

[Emerikol]

And 3E put them back again + all the references that were never changed (City of Dis, etc.). Plus many other RPGs which never had this problem to begin with.

That is true but is that a point? My point was that people can react badly and I gave my example. The outcome was bad. What does 3e putting them back in matter when it comes to the point I made?

 

[Emerikol]

A physical manifestation/incarnation of a god not necessarily intended to be a savior or liberator of people.

Evil gods in D&D have avatars that generally would not be considered messiahs. Even good D&D avatars do not need to be messiahs.

All Messiahs based upon the Christian one would be avatars. NOT all avatars would be Messiahs.

 

[Bedrockgames]

And you may not remember if you are not as old as me, but that cause a major firestorm back in the 80's amongst religious people. The game was attacked and many kids didn't get to play it as a result. If you remember 2e even adjusted and removed all references in reaction.

But the religious people were the ones in the wrong. I was there too. I was in a deeply religious community and I wasn't alllowed to play for some time. That isn't an argument against real world religious elements in RPGs, that is an argument against reactionary responses to art and entertainment (there were all kinds of crazy ideas being spread about D&D at the time around the satanic panic).

 

[Voadam]

All Messiahs based upon the Christian one would be avatars.

Most.
Kult and Heaven and Earth have cosmological setups where the Christian messiah is not an avatar of God.

 

[pemerton]

I would avoid using real religions for many reasons. Even if you want to use a real one, just reflavor it enough that no one can say it is the religion it is based upon. One issue is you may have players who know the real religion better than you do. This is why I have avoided campaigns set in the "real world" because some people may know history better and then you have debates about what would Romans really do or not do. It just isn't worth the trouble. If you want to use real stuff, the effort to change it up a bit is worth it. The time spent will save tons of time later.

True but as GM, I don't want a lot of debates about that history. If it is my unique world there is no argument. I know history pretty well by most people's standard but I have friends who are like me and also know history well. I don't want the game to devolve into a debate about the real history.

I don't find this to be an issue.

In my Prince Valiant game the PCs are Christians, and two of them are leaders of a military order - The Knights of St Sigobert - that they founded, after one experienced inspiration while working among the sick at an abbey dedicated to St Sigobert at the site of his healing waters.

When the PCs travel through Britain we use the map from a Pendragon rule book. When they travelled across Europe to Constantinople and Cyprus we used maps from a Penguin historical atlas (for the 8th century).

This doesn't cause problems.

 

[QuentinGeorge]

I'm a big fan of looking how actual historical religions work and reflecting them in your world. (D&D extreme reluctance to have any depiction of monotheism is incredibly offputting and D&D's treatment of polytheism is almost as stupid), but gotta give a big no to putting real religions in settings that aren't Earth. And that goes for Thor, Anubis and Belenus as much as it does Yawheh.

 

[dragoner]

I gave a no art preview of a science fiction setting I am making using the Cepheus Engine (Traveller) rules. By no art, I mean nothing external, there are still over 60 maps I have made of the cosmos and planets. The biggest hit was among my Russian and German friends with comments of it being very diverse and hard sf; which is cool. Not being religious myself I sort of gave it the pass using a quote from Andre Norton of various religions, sects, still exist, however the fervent style has lost its grip for the most part. One of my Russian friends asked if I was consciously trying for Russian cosmism, if that was a direct influence, expressly about transhumanism. Not directly is my reply, though probably indirectly, and starting to think about it, a future religion might root in the old ways from Russian cosmism.

Russian cosmism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[aramis erak]

That is true but is that a point? My point was that people can react badly and I gave my example. The outcome was bad. What does 3e putting them back in matter when it comes to the point I made?

In part because it shows a societal shift in tolerance of portrayals of evil.
And it also was a time that seriously was TSR trying a lot of bad ideas to expand the market... Well, more correctly, most weren't bad, but just weren't "good enough." 7 active setting lines across 2 games (AD&D 2 and D&D BECMI), 3 more games with 1 setting each (SF, GW, MSH/AMSH), and then Amazing Engine...
Plus, the bulk of the satanic panic was over by 1984... the renaming was (quite rightly) lampooned on various local BBSs and even some fidonet and usenet feeds as pure cosmetics and more than 5 years too late to matter.

That being said, certain fringe religious figures still rant against all RPGs (and board games, card games, comic books, novels, and so on) as "[...] the work of the Devil." (Jerry Prevo, 2012, stumping on TV for his next book burning.) And Prevo was, according to a friend who listened to his TV show, well aware the rename was a dodge, not a true removal of the objectionable content.
John Weddleton, owner of Bosco's Comics, retorted on the news to the effect that all the burned books meant more sales for him, since most of the kids would simply rebuy the books. Not quite a record quarter for the store, but John did confirm in conversation at the store that, indeed, D&D and Rifts sales picked up for the entire month after the bonfire...

That the news (all 3 local channels) presented Dr Prevo (I'm unwilling to give his website any additional hit to check the postnomials for exactly what doctoral degree he holds) in a quite unkind light shows the difference from when he was stumping in the late 70's... when their coverage was sympathetic.

So, yes, that 3E switched back to Demons and Devils is a significant evidence of change in public perception.

 

[steenan]

In the case of designing adventures, religion will often come up in parts of lore and background. Usually, these religions are either spin-offs of existing religions or entirely new religions with a host of different deities within the pantheon.

But I wonder...what about real, practiced religions being accessible in a TTRPG?

My interest is because real religions have such a rich and diverse set of traditions and cultures with iconic stories and memorable moments that define the beautiful aspects of the various regions they originate from. Having the party meet the Judeo-Christian Messiah or the Shinto Goddess of Sun Amaterasu or the Hindu Deity of Destruction Shiva would make for excellent encounters and events that not only show the lore of the fictional world but also gives context to real life religious figures and how they operate.

So, do you think these implementations of explicit religion can be done tactfully within an adventure, even one meant to be published for profit?

I definitely wouldn't put gods or other important figures of existing religions in an RPG adventure unless it was specifically set within this religion's stories. And, in this case, it would require a significant amount of research to stay faithful to the source texts and tradition if it was not a religion I'm already very familiar with.

On the other hand, I do use fictional characters that are loosely inspired by real world religions and mythologies. And, in settings similar to the real world, I obviously have many followers of existing religions as NPCs and sometimes also religious institutions playing some role.