D&D 5E On capstone class features

[ph0rk]

It would be nice if there was some uniformity to the stuff they do, the paladin ones are bonkers, the fighter and rogue ones... meh. The warlock one is situationally neat but also sort of meh.

In the case of wizards I think their level 18 feature is better then their capstone.

 

[dave2008]

I wanna talk capstones! My feeling is that every class's 20th-level feature should be something awe-inspiring that players will strive for. I also feel they should narratively be something unique, rather than an increment of a previous class feature or a numerical advancement of some kind. Like a "thing that only 20th level rangers can do". A new, amazing toy.

Controversially, I also feel it's OK if it's a little OP, since players won't be using it for long! Let them have fun with it. It's your reward for sticking wirh a single class for 20 levels! How often does that happen? And how long do you usually get to play that level 20 character?

I agree with all of this. Lvl 20 should be special - go for it!

 

[Seramus]

Spell Mastery is the real winner for Wizard.

 

[Lycurgon]

Totally agree. I am currently playing a 17th level Warlock and the game is planned for 20 levels. Not looking forward to the Capstone. Might actually come in handy, but it is not exciting and I can probably cope without it. There is likely only going to be 1 big battle at that level so might be useless. I am considering multiclassing as there might be better options.

 

[pogre]

We have played to twentieth level a few times and I like to run at least one adventure at 20th to allow the players to have fun with their new abilities. The characters remain part of the campaign world, so I would prefer the capstones to be more interesting than powerful.

 

[DammitVictor]

I don't like capstone abilities. For one thing, I don't like the implication that level 20 is as high as the level system goes.

The other thing is, they're proposed as some kind of limiting or balancing factor for multiclass characters-- but, as has been mentioned, how many games even go up to level 20 for this to be a factor?

 

[J-H]

A bunch of them are bad. I'm going to houserule most of them when we hit 20 in the current campaign.
I also intend to hand out several epic boons before their final showdown. So far they've shown no sign of trying to rush ahead and take actions that might end the campaign early... so they'll probably end up facing a fairly manifested avatar of a very speedy war god.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I actually think good capstones are kind of bad design, in a weird way. They take really good/strong abilities a class could have, and put it in a place where players will only get it on the very last level they can possibly play, and only briefly. So they occupy design space in a bad way and warp the design of character classes. You should probably start getting powerful abilities before you get to the last few sessions you're ever likely to play a PC. On top of that, if they're extremely powerful, the essentially suggest 20 is the last possible level, which I don't think is great.

My experience is that L20 is almost never reached, and when it is reached, played extremely briefly (single-digit sessions), so the ability there is kind of a lie. I'd actually rather see it be a slightly mediocre ability, so players aren't obsessed with reaching L20, than a hugely dominant one.

If one is determined to go for powerful abilities at Level 20, it might be worth looking at the top-tier abilities in the RPG Heart. I wouldn't suggest replicating them (as many are fatal), but they are "go out with a bang" abilities, and I think it might be cool to have L20 abilities be similar, abilities that are really wild, but you only get to use once (or a few times at most), as befits their "end of campaign" status. The one-off design would also make it easier for PCs to remain in the campaign world. Also, if you have a one-off (or few-off) ability and do later at levels 21-30 to characters (or more), then you're not having to design around some broken OP ability, because it's likely been used up.

 

[Asisreo]

I actually don't think any of them are good at all, honestly. Maybe the paladin's is alright, but every other capstone is just kinda bad, even the "good ones."

The wizard's signature spell are two 1/day 3rd-level spells. They don't have enough for it to be wildly useful OoC and 3rd-level spells hardly matter in-combat at this level.

Monk and Bard's are awkward because they force a more dangerous playstyle where a player might have been more comfortable preserving their resources. Of course, they allow integral abilities to activate when they couldn't normally but its not a scenario that occurs too often naturally.

Barbarian and Fighters get another passive buff which is okay but Barbarians are getting roughly 40hp and 4 more damage while Fighters are getting only about 11 extra damage. Good, especially with Magic Items, but its not really the greatest feature they'd have.

I could go on but I feel like the designers purposefully made capstones bad so that players wouldn't be greatly disappointed if the game never got to 20th level. Low-mid 4th-tier? Epic! Wow! Exciting! Upper 4th-tier? Meh. Alright. We don't have to push ourselves...

A bit disappointing from an epic play fan, but whatever I guess.

 

[Undrave]

I wanna talk capstones! My feeling is that every class's 20th-level feature should be something awe-inspiring that players will strive for. I also feel they should narratively be something unique, rather than an increment of a previous class feature or a numerical advancement of some kind. Like a "thing that only 20th level rangers can do". A new, amazing toy.

Controversially, I also feel it's OK if it's a little OP, since players won't be using it for long! Let them have fun with it. It's your reward for sticking wirh a single class for 20 levels! How often does that happen? And how long do you usually get to play that level 20 character?

Agreed. The last few levels SHOULD be OP and bonkers. It's EPIC! It should FEEL epic!

I feel that capstones are carrot so that it's worth taking the last couple of levels instead of multiclassing out when you get the last big thing.

I think that they should be big, but not so big that multiclassing is an automatic trap option in a game (or one shot) at 20. So it's important that they are a big deal but not too big.

I could go on but I feel like the designers purposefully made capstones bad so that players wouldn't be greatly disappointed if the game never got to 20th level. Low-mid 4th-tier? Epic! Wow! Exciting! Upper 4th-tier? Meh. Alright. We don't have to push ourselves...

A bit disappointing from an epic play fan, but whatever I guess.

I can also see the argument about them not being TOO good either... So how about an Epic Ribbon then? Some sort of legacy in your World? There could just be a list of them your DM can hand out or you can pick and it's obtained at CHARACTER level 20, not Class level 20. A bit like an Epic Level Background feature that inform a little about your place as a level 20 character?