D&D 5E Do you use the Success w/ Complication Module in the DMG or Fail Forward in the Basic PDF

[Lanefan]

Right, I get that’s the logic, it’s just logic that doesn’t work for me. It implies that either the difficulty of the task or the character’s capabilities are being determined randomly.

The character's peak capabilities aren't being determined randomly; what is being determined randomly is whether the character can achieve peak performance* of said capabilities in this particular situation within whatever time (which could be forever) the character has available.

* - or close enough to get the job done.

 

[Charlaquin]

The character's peak capabilities aren't being determined randomly; what is being determined randomly is whether the character can achieve peak performance* of said capabilities in this particular situation within whatever time (which could be forever) the character has available.

* - or close enough to get the job done.

Tomato, tomahto.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

It’s objectively not the best I could have rolled, and since, in this paradigm, the roll of the die determines whether or not my “character’s best” is enough to succeed, it is true that my character’s best could have been better, had I rolled a different number.

That may not be what the mechanic is meant to represent, but it’s not something I can just ignore.

You keep referring to your preference as objectively true. It isn’t.

 

[Charlaquin]

You keep referring to your preference as objectively true. It isn’t.

No, I refer to the fact that 2 isn’t the highest you can roll on a d20 as objectively true. The rest is me explaining the reason for my subjective preference.

 

[Campbell]

A substantial part of the issue here is that in the name of making play more exciting roleplaying games (especially D&D) often add much more uncertainty than generally exists in real life. My ability to lift a heavy load (even under stress) is substantially more predictable in real life than even a peak athlete's ability will be in D&D. I am far from a peak athlete. In fact peaking to lift something particularly heavy is an incredibly reliable process. It's also true that it's not something that can be repeated ad nauseum without significant costs. Even trying to lift something that's close to peak a second or third time is substantially more difficult and could require weeks of recovery to attempt to do so again. There is also a fairly high risk for injury from attempting to repeat bouts.

Comparatively something like picking a lock is mostly about patience, the time it takes you, and the risk of making noise or breaking picks. There is no substantial associated fatigue or physical risk.

Basically we are like really bad at this stuff. Especially anything involving athletics or physicality.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

No, I refer to the fact that 2 isn’t the highest you can roll on a d20 as objectively true. The rest is me explaining the reason for my subjective preference.

But your notion that the numbers on the d20 represent how well your PC has performed a task isn’t objective.

 

[Charlaquin]

But your notion that the numbers on the d20 represent how well your PC has performed a task isn’t objective.

Do you dispute that, in the “one roll represents your best attempt” model, the result of the die roll determines whether or not your character’s best effort is enough to succeed at the task, given the current circumstances?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Do you dispute that, in the “one roll represents your best attempt” model, the result of the die roll determines whether or not your character’s best effort is enough to succeed at the task, given the current circumstances?

Not sure it matters, but I’ll play along.

How does what you describe lead to it being objectively true that the die roll represents what percentage of your skill and effort was put into play for a task?

 

[Maxperson]

How does what you describe lead to it being objectively true that the die roll represents what percentage of your skill and effort was put into play for a task?

To me that method doesn't really make sense. Let's take a PC with +0 to athletics trying to climb a wall.

Player: "Rolled a 5! Only tried 25%. I guess I have to try again. Eww, rolled a 3 that time. Only tried 15%. Didn't even put as much effort into climbing the wall as the first time. I really need to get over this thing. I got a 10! Putting out a 50% effort now! Still didn't make it over, though. Yay! Got a 20! Only took me 4 tries to put in a real effort to get over the wall I really needed to get over."

People don't make attempts like that. They may not make it over the wall the first time, but they are going to be trying at or near their best each time if they need to get over the wall.

 

[S'mon]

No, I definitely don't use these in D&D. If success is necessary for a bottleneck scenario ...well usually I just say the PCs fail anyway and they can go do something else.