D&D General Critical Role Ending

[jgsugden]

Sound like great roleplay to me. Realistic personalities are not one way all of the time. People that are generally moral and would normally turn in such a person can and often are conflicted when it's one of their close friends. Often then don't do the moral thing out of friendship. Beliefs often get set aside. It doesn't sound like anyone did anything wrong and it could have gone either way, but turned out in Essek's favor this go around.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all - but just supporting the idea that it is totally fair to describe Essek as a blood soaked mass murderer. He knowingly created a situation that killed thousands of people. That I'd have been surprised, and that Matt seemed surprised, is not inherently a bad thing. It was just fair to think of Essek as a true villain that got away with it.

 

[MarkB]

I would say that 5e's contribution to Critical Role is well south of structure but north of veneer. I can't think of a word in the english language that fits that bill...perhaps "performative sheathing" (as in you frame a roof with trusses and hangers and then sheath it with OSB/plywood before you roof it)?

Framework, perhaps?

 

[robus]

I fundamentally disagree. If you're streaming, it means you want an audience. If you want an audience, it's a performance. If you are performing, you should consider the experience of your audience.

Not saying the way CR runs is "wrong". But I think there is a huge difference between a private game of D&D and a public game in front of an audience.

I think the fact that a lot of people DON'T see this is why 99% of D&D streams are unwatchable.

I think what elevates CR is that the players actually want to entertain each other. In other words the primary audience is there in the room, yes they’re aware of the secondary audience, but it’s not dominant. Also you must have heard the late night comedians lamenting the lack of live audiences? Playing to an empty room is very hard.

 

[robus]

I would add that given that new episodes come out at a pretty quick pace, that Matt often showcases impressive physical combat locations and some pretty complex battles, that those “breather” episodes are probably necessary so that Matt can prepare the next portion of the adventure.

It’s also called pacing

 

[Burnside]

I'm not disagreeing with you at all - but just supporting the idea that it is totally fair to describe Essek as a blood soaked mass murderer. He knowingly created a situation that killed thousands of people. That I'd have been surprised, and that Matt seemed surprised, is not inherently a bad thing. It was just fair to think of Essek as a true villain that got away with it.

Even if you take the position that they needed to not bring him to justice due to wanting his help, that doesn't mean it makes any psychological sense to keep giggling about how cute it is that he floats around everywhere, and have drinks with him. Good old Essek, that war criminal scamp. I found it bizarre. I'd have had them meet the families of some of the people whose deaths he caused.

 

[robus]

But isn't the whole point of Critical Role to muster an audience so as to generate revenue for the creators/performers?

This seems overly cynical? The group existed before the stream. They were recruited to play live by G&S. Much to their surprise they quickly became a sensation, despite the quite poor quality of the early episodes. The revenue generated actually goes to paying for the facilities and crew and, I’m sure, contributing to the financial security of the group.

 

[jgsugden]

This seems overly cynical? The group existed before the stream. They were recruited to play live by G&S. Much to their surprise they quickly became a sensation, despite the quite poor quality of the early episodes. The revenue generated actually goes to paying for the facilities and crew and, I’m sure, contributing to the financial security of the group.

Yeah ... there are a lot of content providers on Twitch that do fun things, let people watch them, and collect compensation for doing so. They're having fun, they're trying to be mostly authentic ... but at the same time, this is a business and they're well aware of the financial opportunities they have in their hands. They are far, far, far beyond the realm of mere 'financial security'. They're making bank, and if Tales of Vox Machina hits it big on Amazon, they could be really, really, really well off. They're all respected enough in Voice Acting to make very respectable compensation there - but Critical Role will likely be the biggest financial boon any of them ever experience.

 

[pemerton]

This seems overly cynical? The group existed before the stream. They were recruited to play live by G&S. Much to their surprise they quickly became a sensation, despite the quite poor quality of the early episodes. The revenue generated actually goes to paying for the facilities and crew and, I’m sure, contributing to the financial security of the group.

There are famous bands who started out playing in garages! Motivation and performance characteristics can change over time.

 

[jgsugden]

At the table:

Matt thinks a bit commercially in terms of story structure. He clearly tries to build the stories in a way that gives them a way to pay off for the benefit of the fans. He has discussed how the fans and audience influence his creative process at many points. It is one of the concerns that plays a part in the juggling act of his creative process - but he is so good at it, that when a move is commercially focused, he makes sure it is still earned in the game. And, most of the commercial payoff is also a huge payoff for his players as well.

Of the players, only Sam seems to be thinking about the audience when he makes game decisions. He does some things clearly to make it a better story. When he does so, he makes sure that it is earned by subsequent actions, but there are plenty of times he adds something to his characters to create a story for the fans that is a bit out of the blue... and he sometimes decides not to do things because the fans might find it less interesting (or so he believes) - he has commented on that approach a few times.

Laura, Ashley, Travis, Marisha ... they all trust Matt to take care of the story building. All they focus on is the game (for the most part). They occasionally get self conscious about doing things before an audience (well, not Laura), but for the most part they're just playing D&D and are immersed in Matt's world.

Liam is an interesting player. He tries a bit too hard at times to craft the story, whether it is for his character, or by stepping into situations that should not be about his characters (like Caleb did on the Yasha/Beau date night). However, I doubt this has anything to do with the audience. He'd be the same with no audience - he just enjoys being a part of such great stories.

 

[Reynard]

The action economy. The hit point and damage rules. The rules for magic-use, based around spell slots and class abilities. The rules for recovery via rest periods.

Maybe some others too, but those were the ones I thought of in the time it took me to type them up.

EDIT: I also noticed these posts upthread which identify more impediments (though I'm not saying that was what these posters were themselves doing):

None of those things you listed interact with improvisation in play the way GM Moves in PbtA games do, or the way Aspects in Fate do.

Because games like PbtA and Fate attempt to codify how players and GMs interact with the narrative space of te game by way of rules, those games therefore complicate improvisation. I am not saying they stop it or that those tools are good under the right circumstances or whatever,just that because they exist they must be considered.

D&D does not have such rules. Therefore, there is nothing to complicate that improvisation. I am not saying that is better or even good depending on the circumstances.

I personally have found that having to consider mechanics during scenes built primarily around narrative elements has the effect of pulling me out of the play in favor of the game. I prefer to just improvise my way through such scenes without having to consult any rules.

I am not saying this is the One True Way or anything. I am merely explaining to avoid further misunderstanding.