Firefly Reconsidered: Why Firefly Isn't "Hall of Fame" Great

[Marc_C]

I don't care about other people's Lists or Hall of Honours. The only list that counts is mine. Firefly (+Serenity) is still in my top 5 sci-fi series after all these years.

 

[payn]

Of all the complaints about Firefly, there's a certain caucasity in what's not mentioned.

Where are the Asians? All that Chinese swearing was in there because China was a major power when space was settled. Yet nary an actual Chinese person.

I like Firefly as much as the next guy, but like all shows, it's got a few issues of stuff it actually did. Some of that might've been Fox, but the end product is the end product.

This struck me early and often with Firefly.

 

[Stalker0]

I do agree with the fundamental premise that a non-completed show can't really make the hall of fame. Too many shows fail to stick the landing, so much that its basically become a trope on its own.

Though Firefly remains one of best seasons I television imo, I do agree that without seeing how it ends it only be a maybe, and maybe is not strong enough for the hall of fame.

Now a few notes on other points named.

• The Inara/Reaver controversy: I'm sorry, but if you saw all the dropped plotlines that writers come up with for a show it would make your head spin. Part of the freedom of the creative process is the ability to express thoughts in the safety that your fellows and editing will help you tune ideas and drop bad ones. So what if that was an idea on the table, there are so many steps that are followed before it becomes cannon....and if its not cannon its not up for debate. Next you'll tell me I need to include Starwars fanfiction in my discussion of Star Wars movies....I mean heck, at least those stories were actually finished.
• Weadon: I love how people have gone from "these shows are women empowerment" to "these shows are so cringe-inducing". The simple truth is, like most art: You see what you want to see. First off, we don't really know what happened with Weadon and his crew, and probably will never get the full story. If wrong-doings happened, I hope people take the HR and legal means to correct them. But airing them in public...sorry the days of stamping red A's on people and publicly stoning them in the streets are supposed to be long gone.... we have standard means for people to seek justice for this reason.

I also like how people just keep piling on for Weadon for JL.... when its been proven at this point that the vast majority of footage used is Synder's. Yeah Weadon put together a crappy movie....from a patchwork of Synder footage. And the Snyder cut is no saving grace, its got a few solid moments....which for a 4 hour movie I would freaking hope so. But the Syndercut is not a great movie, its a movie thats a little bit better than the crappy one that came before it. I laugh how the fans wanted to torch Synder for MoS or BvS....but now he does a little improvement of JL and he's basically Jesus....talk about a fickle fandom.

 

[Dausuul]

And as anyone who is a fan of Lost or the X-Files will be more than happy to explain to you, it is quite easy for a show to provide mysteries and questions; it is much more difficult for a show to provide answers that satisfy.

THIS. So much. In the immortal words of Supernatural*, "Any chapped-a** monkey with a keyboard can poop out a beginning. But endings are impossible."

This is why I still love Babylon 5, even though in many respects it has aged badly. It didn't just set up mysteries--it resolved them. It didn't just ask questions--it answered them. It did not tie off every loose end, but it got most of them, and wrapped up each major character's personal arc, and delivered a really solid, satisfying conclusion to the story.

*Which--since we're discussing endings--ended with the conclusion of Season 5. There were never any additional seasons of Supernatural. Nope.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

THIS. So much. In the immortal words of Supernatural*, "Any chapped-a** monkey with a keyboard can poop out a beginning. But endings are impossible."

This is why I still love Babylon 5, even though in many respects it has aged badly. It didn't just set up mysteries--it resolved them. It didn't just ask questions--it answered them. It did not tie off every loose end, but it got most of them, and wrapped up each major character's personal arc, and delivered a really solid, satisfying conclusion to the story.

*Which--since we're discussing endings--ended with the conclusion of Season 5. There were never any additional seasons of Supernatural. Nope.

I'm guessing that there's an interesting Venn Diagram between the people who argue so vociferously in favor of Firefly that I decide to write this (you know, the same people that make it the #1, or one of the very top shows in all of the internet rankings), and those people who throw giant tantrums about Game of Thrones and insist that the whole show is terrible no-good bad, because they didn't like the last two seasons.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

I strongly disagree with this statement. Serialized stories lead to some of the most boring filler-filled shows I have ever experienced.

When an episodic show like ST:TNG or X-Files had a "filler" episode, we got a monster-of-the-week or ship-in-a-bottle episode. But when you get right down to it, those episodes are what the core or those shows are really about. A nice, self contained problem, which a solution in the same episode. You might even get a second-run character getting a day in the limelight out of it, or some fun trivia or minor backstory to explore. It's like the rice/potato/carb to a hearty meal; it's not filler, it's the base.

Yeah, the Monster of the Week X-Files episodes are by far what people liked/remembered. Clyde Buckman's Final Repose is better than the entire dull meta plot combined. It's a lesson many game masters could learn from... let adventures stand alone in a longer campaign.

 

[Janx]

I do agree with the fundamental premise that a non-completed show can't really make the hall of fame. Too many shows fail to stick the landing, so much that its basically become a trope on its own.

I disagree with this metric because networks are fickle and actual good shows do get canceled without an ending. Netflix is notorious for this (ex. The OA).

We could just as easily sample all sci-fi shows first 13 episodes so they all have a level playing field. Its possible other favorite shows wouldn't measure up as well. The first season of TNG was the worst of TNG and arguably, Firefly was better than that.

 

[payn]

• Weadon: I love how people have gone from "these shows are women empowerment" to "these shows are so cringe-inducing". The simple truth is, like most art: You see what you want to see. First off, we don't really know what happened with Weadon and his crew, and probably will never get the full story. If wrong-doings happened, I hope people take the HR and legal means to correct them. But airing them in public...sorry the days of stamping red A's on people and publicly stoning them in the streets are supposed to be long gone.... we have standard means for people to seek justice for this reason.

Those standard means are not as effective as you may assume them to be.

 

[Maxperson]

Yeah, the Monster of the Week X-Files episodes are by far what people liked/remembered. Clyde Buckman's Final Repose is better than the entire dull meta plot combined. It's a lesson many game masters could learn from... let adventures stand alone in a longer campaign.

NCIS suffers from the same thing. When the seasons were just a bunch of independent stories, it was a MUCH better show than when they started creating story arcs that went the entire season.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

THIS. So much. In the immortal words of Supernatural*, "Any chapped-a** monkey with a keyboard can poop out a beginning. But endings are impossible."

This is why I still love Babylon 5, even though in many respects it has aged badly. It didn't just set up mysteries--it resolved them. It didn't just ask questions--it answered them. It did not tie off every loose end, but it got most of them, and wrapped up each major character's personal arc, and delivered a really solid, satisfying conclusion to the story.

*Which--since we're discussing endings--ended with the conclusion of Season 5. There were never any additional seasons of Supernatural. Nope.

YES. Season 5 was the natural end. Dean with his family, Sam watching over them, apocalypse averted.

None of this "They've got to save the world again, again... Only THIS time, it's personal! For the THIRD time!!!" Let those boys have the peace the damn Kansas song promised!