Firefly Reconsidered: Why Firefly Isn't "Hall of Fame" Great

[cmad1977]

Firefly is nowhere near as good as it could have been and no where near as good as it is remembered.

 

[Maxperson]

Firefly is nowhere near as good as it could have been and no where near as good as it is remembered.

Then why do I enjoy it just as much every time I re-watch it?

 

[Maxperson]

No. Speculation would be, "I think they might have done a musical episode, but with puppets. Kinda like Buffy AND Angel."

When the writer/producer Tim Minnear says that he was recruited by Whedon with the pitch for that episode, and you see that the structure of the episodes was built to foreshadow that episode, it's not just speculation. If Buffy had been cancelled one episode before Angel was 'revealed' as a vampire (um... spoiler?) would that have been speculation? Or both the planned outcome of the choices they were making, and, you know, obvious?

Is it possible that they might have changed direction? Sure. But there has never been any indication that they were going to.

As for why it matters to the critique, or my critique- the relationship dynamic between Inara and Mal is the worst aspect of the show to begin with. The idea that the resolution of Mal's inability to resolve his Madonna/Whore complex is to have Inara gangraped makes it go from slightly uncomfortable to grotesque. Again, IMO, YMMV.

The reason I didn't want to go to deep into this in the OP is that Firefly is fine. It's a decent show. I didn't write the OP to pile on to the show. I truly love Buffy and Angel. I liked Firefly and Dollhouse. But the things that, for me, make Firefly a standout (specifically- an absolutely stellar cast) do not overcome the issues that I have with it that become more glaring over time and that I cannot overlook. I barely made it through re-watching the last time, and that was before the Whedon mess came out.

If you love the show like Homer Simpsons loves donuts- unreservedly and with pink frosting, then such is your considered choice and I have no wish to disturb it.


EDIT- I wanted to make a slight caveat. When I say that the Inara/Mal dynamic is the worst aspect, I mean the Mal aspect. And I also think that the borrowing of Lost Cause mythology is arguably worse, for me. It may not bother other people who don't notice it or don't care.

Sure, it was an intended(at that time) story arc. Those arcs turn on a dime, though. A minor character intended to be in 2 episodes and die will sometimes due to popularity not die and remain for the rest of the show's run. All we know at this point is that is what was intended when she pulled out the syringe. Given the shows high popularity, we don't know that her arc would have ended with gang rape and death. Whedon had the opportunity to finish that arc in Serenity which featured the Reavers, but he didn't.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Sure, it was an intended(at that time) story arc. Those arcs turn on a dime, though. A minor character intended to be in 2 episodes and die will sometimes due to popularity not die and remain for the rest of the show's run. All we know at this point is that is what was intended when she pulled out the syringe. Given the shows high popularity, we don't know that her arc would have ended with gang rape and death. Whedon had the opportunity to finish that arc in Serenity which featured the Reavers, but he didn't.

The arc wasn't going to end with her death. Again, it was intended to resolve Mal's issues.

EDIT: Okay, so here's the gist. The syringe would make it so that if Inara was sexually assaulted, those who did so would die. So when she was sexually assaulted by all the Reavers, that killed them. And she survived. And Mal finds her, and he's all like, wow, maybe I should stop calling her a (less pleasant term for) harlot. Yay?

 

[payn]

God, this thread is getting gross.

 

[Sepulchrave II]

My main problem with Whedon is that he writes all of his female characters from the perspective of an oversexed teenage boy who isn’t getting any action. Once you see the fetishizing for what it is, pretty much everything becomes cringe-inducing.

 

[Maxperson]

My main problem with Whedon is that he writes all of his female characters from the perspective of an oversexed teenage boy who isn’t getting any action. Once you see the fetishizing for what it is, pretty much everything becomes cringe-inducing.

Jack Chalker the author is like that with his books as well.

 

[Umbran]

God, this thread is getting gross.

Yeah. I can only hope that, if it had continued, someone would have talked Wheadon out of that one. Maybe the actors, or the network...

But, there are reasons why he's not really in favor any more, and this is indicative.

 

[Imaculata]

The arc wasn't going to end with her death. Again, it was intended to resolve Mal's issues.

EDIT: Okay, so here's the gist. The syringe would make it so that if Inara was sexually assaulted, those who did so would die. So when she was sexually assaulted by all the Reavers, that killed them. And she survived. And Mal finds her, and he's all like, wow, maybe I should stop calling her a (less pleasant term for) harlot. Yay?

But it didn't happen. Much like how Peter Jackson intended for Aragorn to fight Sauron at the end of Return of the King, or how Arwen was supposed to take part in the Battle of Helmsdeep. Things that were already shot, but got cut before release. Do we judge the Lord of the Rings trilogy based on what might have been?

I don't. I'm glad they didn't follow through with those things, but I judge the final product. I get that Josh Whedon's fall from grace puts an ugly spin on all this. But in the end, Firefly is what it is. We don't need to speculate what might have been. We got Serenity to end the story, and it wasn't included in that either.

 

[Janx]

Of all the complaints about Firefly, there's a certain caucasity in what's not mentioned.

Where are the Asians? All that Chinese swearing was in there because China was a major power when space was settled. Yet nary an actual Chinese person.

I like Firefly as much as the next guy, but like all shows, it's got a few issues of stuff it actually did. Some of that might've been Fox, but the end product is the end product.