D&D 5E Too Much Spellcasting in Your D&D? Just Add a Little Lankhmar!

[BookTenTiger]

Thinking about this prompt more, I've actually kind of come around to liking it.

I think a big key to this style of campaign is that magic should be awe-inspiring. When the characters are using magic in combat, it's because they've prepared. When an enemy is using magic, it's scary.

For enemy spellcasters, I would probably give them just one or two really high level spells to use in combat. When you know the orc fire mage is going to cast a 12d6 Fireball in 4 rounds, the combat strategy shifts to disrupting his concentration.

I think another thing you need is a lot of walls that can be bypassed out of combat through magic. There aren't going to be many Arcane Locks, so Knock is super powerful. Most people aren't going to have protections against Scrying. People get easily tricked by Illusions because they are very rare.

In other words, if a player chooses to be a spellcaster, they should feel like the combat sacrifice allows them to be powerful in the campaign world.

 

[TwoSix]

It's special the first time you do it. By the fifth time, it's Mordenkainen's Mystic Uber.

That's the fundamental problem of "rare and special" magic in D&D: Nothing that you can do every single day, where the only cost is "You can't do it again today," is going to be either special or rare for long. And because that system is the foundation of every D&D casting class, it's virtually impossible to fix without either banning caster classes or redesigning them from the ground up.

Fair, but the OP also didn't say "rare and special", they just said "less magic." Not wanting magic to be used in combat isn't the same goal as "All magic is a special occurrence, like out of a fairy tale." Magic in a system that's controllable by the players will always be viewed ultimately as a resource.

If you want magic to be rare and special, take it out of the class system entirely, and hand it out as magic items, ideally with limited charges or as a single-use consumable.

 

[TwoSix]

For enemy spellcasters, I would probably give them just one or two really high level spells to use in combat. When you know the orc fire mage is going to cast a 12d6 Fireball in 4 rounds, the combat strategy shifts to disrupting his concentration.
...
In other words, if a player chooses to be a spellcaster, they should feel like the combat sacrifice allows them to be powerful in the campaign world.

This guy gets it. Totally agree.

 

[Blue]

I played Earthdawn many year ago, and one of my least favorite parts of it was needing to "Gather Thread" (rounds of no action) in order to cast. Regardless if the end result was powerful enough that everything balanced out in the end, boring rounds of no-effect is an absolute show stopper for me. I don't need 10 minutes wait - say I'm doing effectively nothing - 10 minute wait - lather, rinse, repeat.

 

[BookTenTiger]

I played Earthdawn many year ago, and one of my least favorite parts of it was needing to "Gather Thread" (rounds of no action) in order to cast. Regardless if the end result was powerful enough that everything balanced out in the end, boring rounds of no-effect is an absolute show stopper for me. I don't need 10 minutes wait - say I'm doing effectively nothing - 10 minute wait - lather, rinse, repeat.

It would be interesting if "charging" a spell was a Bonus Action, and casting the spell was an Action.

 

[Monayuris]

But you cannot just effectively ban all combat spells and assume the game to work. Like if you wanted to play a low tech game, you couldn't just say that there is no armour and no weapons better than club and assume the game to work. I don't think perfect balance is needed, but this is just absurd.

I'm not banning combat spells. Fireball, magic missile and many others exist would still exist. It is just that cantrips are banned.

I don't disagree with the goal (trying to make play less magic-intensive to suit a low-magic setting), but the problem is this solution only nerfs spellcasters. It removes balance and tilts it in favor of other classes; if you don't want to be outshone by other players, you're going to be incentivized to play a martial class.

EDIT: One solution would be to give spellcasters more martial options, but the OP does not do this. Essentially, this is just a nerf, and I don't believe that's good game design.

There is no need to grant a spell caster more martial options as they are already quite powerful outside of combat. Although I would consider allowing a spell caster to pick up additional weapon proficiencies and maybe wear armor at some other penalty (maybe a penalty to concentration saves if they wear armor).

Balance is maintained in the general scope of the game as a whole, it is just that balance in combat is driven in favor of non-spellcasting classes and, in this situation, that is a desirable outcome.

Although this also brings up all the classes and subclasses that are overtly magical that aren't casters.... (a lot of the later barbarian subclasses for example). I'd probably just ban those out-right. Ban warlocks and sorcerers and limit wizards as defined.

 

[TwoSix]

It would be interesting if "charging" a spell was a Bonus Action, and casting the spell was an Action.

I suggested it upthread, but I like the idea of requiring a recharge or cooldown time after casting a spell. So you can open up combat with a big spell, but after that you have to have a plan B that doesn't require spells.

Would work better if the standard spellcaster used a Warlock chassis, all high level slots but very few of them.

 

[Monayuris]

I personally like Worlds Without Number for this type of game. Spellcasters get very few spells, but the spells they do get are super-strong.

I love Worlds Without Number.

It gets the balance for spell casting right in my opinion. Spells are super powerful but very much limited (spellcasting is more limited in WWN than even in B/X or AD&D). Warrior types also get significant bumps in capability due to combat foci.

However, there's nothing stopping a Mage from picking up a couple combat foci and being effective in combat.

@Snarf Zagyg I'd highly recommend checking it out. You can get the free version on DriveThruRpg.

 

[Stormonu]

What I'm saying is, if you really just don't want people to play spellcasters, don't beat-around-the-bush by putting in these onerous restrictions. Just ban the classes or spells you don't want to see. Or preferably, pick a different game that has less magic usage.

“Play another game” is not a solution, it’s a dismissal. Diluting the presence of magic doesn’t break the game, but it does alter the flavor dramatically.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

I'm not banning combat spells. Fireball, magic missile and many others exist would still exist. It is just that cantrips are banned.


There is no need to grant a spell caster more martial options as they are already quite powerful outside of combat. Although I would consider allowing a spell caster to pick up additional weapon proficiencies and maybe wear armor at some other penalty (maybe a penalty to concentration saves if they wear armor).

Balance is maintained in the general scope of the game as a whole, it is just that balance in combat is driven in favor of non-spellcasting classes and, in this situation, that is a desirable outcome.

Although this also brings up all the classes and subclasses that are overtly magical that aren't casters.... (a lot of the later barbarian subclasses for example). I'd probably just ban those out-right. Ban warlocks and sorcerers and limit wizards as defined.

This just circles back to the simple, "Play a different game." D&D is at its core, a combat simulator. Yes there are rules for non-combat, but the most rules are for fighting monsters. A full third of the core rules are devoted to rules describing monster stats, abilities, etc. If the game was more balanced towards non-combat I would agree with you, but it is not.

I have no problems with a less-magical system, but because D&D is at its core combat, limiting spellcasting in such a way makes them classes people are much less likely to use.