D&D 5E Do You Tinker with Adventures to Make Them "Winnable"?

[Retreater]

What is exceptionally frustrating about this adventure is the large number of "you can't solve this yet" missions that are present - I'd say easily 1/3rd or more of them; then they're presented in a way that you can't find out what you need to solve the problem in advance; and there's only a specific solution. To make matters worse, the module recommends milestone XP for "solving the missions" - so once you start down that path, there's no half XP for "kinda dealing with the problem."

Specifically with the caster behind the magic door, it's someone who can create her own food and water so she could outlast the party at a siege.

For those interested in the identity of the adventure, I'll put it in spoiler tags: Rime of the Frostmaiden.

 

[Dessert Nomad]

Pro player move: Knock down the walls, ignore the villain and the treasure, take the indestructible door.

I think you're saying that as a joke, but this is exactly the kind of thing I like to see in TTRPGs that can't really happen in CRPGs. It's possible that the invulnerable door could be a thing the party carries around for the rest of the campaign and finds uses for.

 

[Mort]

What is exceptionally frustrating about this adventure is the large number of "you can't solve this yet" missions that are present - I'd say easily 1/3rd or more of them; then they're presented in a way that you can't find out what you need to solve the problem in advance; and there's only a specific solution. To make matters worse, the module recommends milestone XP for "solving the missions" - so once you start down that path, there's no half XP for "kinda dealing with the problem."

Specifically with the caster behind the magic door, it's someone who can create her own food and water so she could outlast the party at a siege.

For those interested in the identity of the adventure, I'll put it in spoiler tags: Rime of the Frostmaiden.

Yeah, as talented as the design teams on recent adventures are, there are some whoppers in bad design.

Take Waterdeep Dragon Heist, In addition to the shockingly bad connective tissue to what should be a straightforward linear adventure: (I'll use spoilers)

Spoiler

If the PCs are creative and resourceful and somehow find the McGuffin early? The McGuffin itself literally erases their memories and puts them back several steps because "they are not ready to find it." -Maybe some people like this kind of blunt interference? I HATE it, and so would my players.

 

[LordEntrails]

I think you're saying that as a joke, but this is exactly the kind of thing I like to see in TTRPGs that can't really happen in CRPGs. It's possible that the invulnerable door could be a thing the party carries around for the rest of the campaign and finds uses for.

DragonLance has an adventure with a giant steel door. We took the door. DM was a bit baffled what to do. We converted it to coins for him based upon mass. He didn't want us to be that wealthy! (Steel is the money of choice in that setting.)

 

[robus]

So I'm running an official 5e campaign adventure, which shall remain unnamed so we don't get into spoiler territory. I'm primarily looking for general advice and the points of view of other GMs and players more than specific fixes to the adventure.

Seems like the perfect case for spoiler tags surely?

For those of us DMs who wish to know the adventure...

 

[Dausuul]

I think you're saying that as a joke, but this is exactly the kind of thing I like to see in TTRPGs that can't really happen in CRPGs. It's possible that the invulnerable door could be a thing the party carries around for the rest of the campaign and finds uses for.

It's half a joke and half serious.

I mean, I doubt the adventure includes any explanation of how or why the door is indestructible. The designers were just trying to corral the PCs in a hamfisted, railroady way. In such a scenario, I would prefer to have the DM change the door into a regular door that can be interacted with normally. "Take the door as treasure" is a way of pointing up the silliness of the situation.

But if the designers did in fact describe the door as made of adamantine, or pure magical force, or something else that justifies its indestructibility? Then I'm with you: Taking the door as treasure and finding clever uses for it is a totally awesome thing for the PCs to do.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

So I'm running an official 5e campaign adventure, which shall remain unnamed so we don't get into spoiler territory. I'm primarily looking for general advice and the points of view of other GMs and players more than specific fixes to the adventure.

Here are a few recent situations:
1) Party needs to get into room to defeat evil caster who is terrorizing the local village. Caster is safely locked behind a door that (per the adventure) "cannot be damaged, forced open, or opened in any other way besides a knock spell (or a second spell that is fairly obscure)." All the party can do is leave the quest incomplete.
2) Party enters the first room of the dungeon. There's a monster that is resistant to magic and immune to non-magical weapon attacks (and has a boat load of HP). Party doesn't have magic weapons, because none are placed in the adventure. All the party can do is leave the quest incomplete.
3) Party fights their way through a dungeon to get to the BBEG. He cannot be reduced below 1 HP unless the party casts one of two spells in another room that they are too level to be able to cast. (The adventure specifically says that no other actions work.) All the party can do is leave the quest incomplete.

There are more examples in this adventure, and it's certainly not the way I'd design my own games.

Would you tinker with the adventure to give them a fighting chance? Also, when following the milestone XP suggestions, they get nothing for incomplete missions. So they can't level up to be able to complete the other missions, stuck forever at 4th level.

Do I alter badly designed adventures? Yes I alter badly designed adventures. I've been doing it since I was 11 and I'm not likely to stop soon.

Are a lot of official adventures, especially in 4E (damn you WotC!) and 3E really badly designed? Oh hell yeah. 5E has some real headscratchers too though fewer of them it seems.

Like 1, unless they can explain to me in great detail how that is the case, that is some some stupid videogame nonsense that is getting deleted immediately. Part of the whole point of RPGs is you can avoid videogame nonsense like doors which are impossible to open or destroy.

In fact 1 and 3 both sound like dumb videogame nonsense, and 2 just seems like crap design. 5E specifically isn't supposed to require magic items - including magic weapons. So anything to non-magic weapons absolutely must have some way to harm it - preferably silvered or cold iron weapons or something. And not putting any in the adventure is just bloody silly.

 

[Retreater]

Take Waterdeep Dragon Heist, In addition to the shockingly bad connective tissue to what should be a straightforward linear adventure: (I'll use spoilers)

Yes. I've run that one as well, and had that same issue come up in my game.
The thing about running a lot of the official adventures is that you come across your share of bad moments.
If I wasn't running exclusively on VTTs, I'd probably be writing my own adventures.

 

[billd91]

What is exceptionally frustrating about this adventure is the large number of "you can't solve this yet" missions that are present - I'd say easily 1/3rd or more of them; then they're presented in a way that you can't find out what you need to solve the problem in advance; and there's only a specific solution. To make matters worse, the module recommends milestone XP for "solving the missions" - so once you start down that path, there's no half XP for "kinda dealing with the problem."

Specifically with the caster behind the magic door, it's someone who can create her own food and water so she could outlast the party at a siege.

Out of curiosity, did these things actually stymie your players or are you worried they might? If you're worried, I've found that players can be both far cleverer (and stupider, sillier, and more bizarre) than I expect. You know your players better than I could, but is it possible you're underestimating them? In the case of the spellcaster behind the indestructible door, if I've figured out the quest successfully (the frost druid in the elven tomb near Lonelywood?), the solution is kind of out there in the open for them to see. A strong clue is in the elven inscription around the half-moons on the moondial. Finding a way to redirect them at it might be what they need if they're stumped.

And as far as enemies that are immune to normal weapons and not just resistant, when the situation occurs it's a great time to impart information to them as if the new information (the weapon immunity) is a good time for a test of their knowledge of nature or the arcane. If fighting a golem and a powerful attack seems to have no effect, maybe one can remember stories of them and that they could only be destroyed by enchanted weapons. Then leave it up to them whether they want to push on with a useless fight or retreat and see if they can find some magic weapon (or silver or whatever) that someone is willing to trade or sell.

 

[iserith]

Yes. I've run that one as well, and had that same issue come up in my game.
The thing about running a lot of the official adventures is that you come across your share of bad moments.
If I wasn't running exclusively on VTTs, I'd probably be writing my own adventures.

Lost Mines of Phandelver was the best of the lot in my view but the rest of the adventures (save a couple in TftYP) just collect dust on my shelves. They aren't even worth me trying to fix them.

Get some art assets and some OSR adventures if you're running on a VTT. They are much better. WotC adventures are not great.