Dragonlance (+) What Would You Want From 5e Dragonlance?

[EzekielRaiden]

Make magic difficult again.

The in lore restrictions for things like paladins and wizards were what made the setting interesting and not generic, and they should be maintained.

I haven’t read the books in ages, but social structures that interact with some class mechanics were more or less core to the original setting.

Out of curiosity, are you wanting these restrictions as prescriptive or descriptive ones?

That is, a descriptive restriction is one where "if you want to play a paladin (or w/e), your character will be made to meet this requirement," whereas a prescriptive one is "unless your character meets this requirement beforehand, you won't be allowed to take this option." In Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale and the like, you see an example of the former where Paladin characters, who are required to have a minimum 17 Cha, will be brought up to 17 Cha if they don't meet that minimum with their rolled stats. Whereas, as I understood it, many actual 2e players ran it as a prescriptive restriction: if you didn't roll a 17 Cha, you simply weren't allowed to play a Paladin, period.

I'd be okay with descriptive restrictions on these things, but prescriptive ones are kinda meh for me. (Obviously this is a + thread and a personal-opinion thing, so I'm not saying you aren't allowed to want this. Just sharing my own feelings on the subject.)

 

[Hussar]

I have to admit that I don’t like the idea of playable draconians. Draconians replace so many of the DnD monsters. Humanoids and demons/devils all rolled into one.

And one of the few races where it’s perfectly fine that they are irredeemably evil. The3e additions where they made draconians an actual race with baby draconians and whatnot was a change I did not like.

Draconians were horrific. I liked that.

 

[QuentinGeorge]

I have to admit that I don’t like the idea of playable draconians. Draconians replace so many of the DnD monsters. Humanoids and demons/devils all rolled into one.

And one of the few races where it’s perfectly fine that they are irredeemably evil. The3e additions where they made draconians an actual race with baby draconians and whatnot was a change I did not like.

Draconians were horrific. I liked that.

That wasn’t 3e that did that. It was the books by Margaret Weis. 3e was just the first time the RPG got a setting book after that.

 

[Hussar]

That wasn’t 3e that did that. It was the books by Margaret Weis. 3e was just the first time the RPG got a setting book after that.

I stopped reading the books after like the first twenty or so. Sucker for punishment I guess. So, yeah, pretty much anything after the War of the Lance, I missed. To me, Dragonlance will always be The War of the Lance setting.

 

[Steampunkette]

You DO realize that other people post in this thread than you right? "Low magic straw man"? Hmmm...




So, yeah, low magic has been proposed in the thread. You might want to dial back the antagonism, just a couple of notches. You argued that we must not include other races in a setting that is KNOWN for adding races pretty willy nilly.

You didn't quote them. You quoted me. You specifically referenced players dripping with magic items and the character being a deity. In response to my post. Not a multi quote, like you just did.

Just my post.

Roughly equivalent to sitting in a group conversation hearing two people talk about low magic and then looking at a person who's talking about setting specific races and condescending to them about not wanting gonzo magic in the setting because two other people nearby commented on low magic.

Do you mean to express that you unintentionally mistook my statement as wanting low magic? That would make a lot more sense.

 

[cbwjm]

I'm not sure exactly what I want to see, certainly the races of dragonlance brought into the game. Draconians are already listed as Dragonborn in the PHB but with magical powers instead of a breath weapon so I'd expect them to expand on the the new dragonborn with new subraces. Kender are effectively halflings with sleight of hand. I definitely think the focus should be on the races of dragonlance, those outside it should be left outside it. They've done it with the MtG settings so no reason not to do the same for Dragonlance.

I like the thought of there being a single subclass for some classes. Knight of Solamnia could be a paladin subclass, wizard of high sorcery would be a wizard subclass. I'd like to see a couple of sorcerer subclasses that focus on the path magic of the old saga system, one for sorcery one for mysticism. These subclasses could perhaps have different abilities depending on the order. If I was creating the subclasses for the knights of solamnia, I'd likely not worry about moving through the orders within the subclass, that can be part of the factions themselves, I'd probably just end up going the route that I believe 3e eventually did and just allow a character to join any order without having to progress in the lower ones. Some subclasses I could see are:

• Paladin: Knight of Solamnia, Knight of the Skull
• Fighter: Knight of the Lily
• Wizard: Knight of the Thorn, Wizard of High Sorcery
• Sorcerer: Mystic, Primal Sorcerer

Various factions could exist that grant abilities as you move up in them. The more power you have as a high sorcerer the more abilities you gain relating to your orders magic, first faction ability would be a bonus from the moons themselves. The knight of Solamnia would could move through the ranks from crown, sword, to rose. Perhaps even a white robed sorcerer could join the order to become one of the kingfishers.

The last few books I'd read had the minotaurs conquering Silvanesti and the remaining qualinesti and silvanesti establishing a new home. I'd say set it after these events and set the various wars as history. Even the gods have changed, Takhisis is now dead and Paladine is a mortal (though keep a listing of both as gods for those who wish to set their game during an earlier era), and Mina is now a god who is part of the neutral gods.

A setting book should probably devote a small section to the overarching history of the world. Things like the fall of istar, war of the lance and the return of the gods, the war of chaos, age of mortals, and the war of souls.

 

[QuentinGeorge]

I'm not sure exactly what I want to see, certainly the races of dragonlance brought into the game. Draconians are already listed as Dragonborn in the PHB but with magical powers instead of a breath weapon so I'd expect them to expand on the the new dragonborn with new subraces. Kender are effectively halflings with sleight of hand. I definitely think the focus should be on the races of dragonlance, those outside it should be left outside it. They've done it with the MtG settings so no reason not to do the same for Dragonlance.

I like the thought of there being a single subclass for some classes. Knight of Solamnia could be a paladin subclass, wizard of high sorcery would be a wizard subclass. I'd like to see a couple of sorcerer subclasses that focus on the path magic of the old saga system, one for sorcery one for mysticism. These subclasses could perhaps have different abilities depending on the order. If I was creating the subclasses for the knights of solamnia, I'd likely not worry about moving through the orders within the subclass, that can be part of the factions themselves, I'd probably just end up going the route that I believe 3e eventually did and just allow a character to join any order without having to progress in the lower ones. Some subclasses I could see are:

• Paladin: Knight of Solamnia, Knight of the Skull
• Fighter: Knight of the Lily
• Wizard: Knight of the Thorn, Wizard of High Sorcery
• Sorcerer: Mystic, Primal Sorcerer

Various factions could exist that grant abilities as you move up in them. The more power you have as a high sorcerer the more abilities you gain relating to your orders magic, first faction ability would be a bonus from the moons themselves. The knight of Solamnia would could move through the ranks from crown, sword, to rose. Perhaps even a white robed sorcerer could join the order to become one of the kingfishers.

The last few books I'd read had the minotaurs conquering Silvanesti and the remaining qualinesti and silvanesti establishing a new home. I'd say set it after these events and set the various wars as history. Even the gods have changed, Takhisis is now dead and Paladine is a mortal (though keep a listing of both as gods for those who wish to set their game during an earlier era), and Mina is now a god who is part of the neutral gods.

A setting book should probably devote a small section to the overarching history of the world. Things like the fall of istar, war of the lance and the return of the gods, the war of chaos, age of mortals, and the war of souls.

I agree with most of this, but I'd have Knight of the Thorn as a warlock. They don't really act like wizards, and they pretty much get their powers directly from the Dark Queen, which screams pact magic to me. Plus it allows that class to be used organically in Krynn, which WoTC will like cos it allows all the options from the players handbook. Mystics need to be divine casters, but since they made Favoured Souls into sorcerers, I guess there is precedence.

On the topic of races, you can maximise adherence to PHB as follows:

Human
Elf (High = Silvanesti/Qualinesti; Wood = Kagonesti; No Drow)
Dwarf (Hill = Neidar; Mountain = Hylar, Daewar, etc)
Halfling (True Kender, Afflicted Kender)
Gnome (Tinker, Thinker)
Half-Orc (Nope)
Dragonborn (Draconian)
Tiefling (Nope?)

Half Orc I guess you could just chuck the Goblin/Hobgoblin/Bugbears in as a replacement since they already have those racial writeups. Tiefling I'm a bit conflicted on. Krynn has devils and demons. It could have tieflings - we just haven't seen any. Maybe they get replaced with Irda.

 

[ph0rk]

Out of curiosity, are you wanting these restrictions as prescriptive or descriptive ones?

That is, a descriptive restriction is one where "if you want to play a paladin (or w/e), your character will be made to meet this requirement," whereas a prescriptive one is "unless your character meets this requirement beforehand, you won't be allowed to take this option." In Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale and the like, you see an example of the former where Paladin characters, who are required to have a minimum 17 Cha, will be brought up to 17 Cha if they don't meet that minimum with their rolled stats. Whereas, as I understood it, many actual 2e players ran it as a prescriptive restriction: if you didn't roll a 17 Cha, you simply weren't allowed to play a Paladin, period.

I'd be okay with descriptive restrictions on these things, but prescriptive ones are kinda meh for me. (Obviously this is a + thread and a personal-opinion thing, so I'm not saying you aren't allowed to want this. Just sharing my own feelings on the subject.)

All magic (even arcane) was given by gods in Krynn, and there were tests to gain certain levels in wizard (or to learn and use certain level spells). Fail the test, don't gain the level or learn the spell.

Renegades existed, but depending on the era were hunted by the orders. Also, order membership impacted spell school access, and you wore your order on your sleeve, as it were.

DnD is a system that can model that world, but the system is more flexible than the world. If they release the setting, there should be rules restricting what you can do in base 5e to fit the setting,

Darksun is the same; to properly reflect the setting, the rules should be proscriptive. People that want to ignore them will do so.

 

[QuentinGeorge]

All magic (even arcane) was given by gods in Krynn, and there were tests to gain certain levels in wizard (or to learn and use certain level spells). Fail the test, don't gain the level or learn the spell.

Renegades existed, but depending on the era were hunted by the orders. Also, order membership impacted spell school access, and you wore your order on your sleeve, as it were.

DnD is a system that can model that world, but the system is more flexible than the world. If they release the setting, there should be rules restricting what you can do in base 5e to fit the setting,

Darksun is the same; to properly reflect the setting, the rules should be proscriptive. People that want to ignore them will do so.

Yeah that's not true. Renegade wizards were actively hunted by the Conclave, but they could still cast spells.

And sorcerers and Knights of the Thorn didn't get their powers from the moon gods, nor did mystics receive their powers from any god.

 

[ECMO3]

There are two things I would like to see:

1. Something that really fleshes out the wizard schools with a lot of detail and fills in gaps. How they work, how they interact with all the races and factions - How do the reclusive Silvanesti Archwizards get to Archwizard status? Do they leave the woods and go to the trials? How about Dwarf wizards that are underground behind iron doors that have not open in centuries? How did the wizards in dragon armies do it during the war? Did they put their world domination campaign on hold so they can knock this out and what did they say to the other wizards in the conclave when they were there - "Yeah I took leave after sacking Tarsis so I could come here and knock this trial thing out"

2. Go backwards in time to precataclysm or right after. I think Krynn after the Dragowars is a litttle difficult to do but the time before the cataclysm could be very rich. It could be a little fatalistic if you drive characters towards a world-changing apocolypse that they can not change, but maybe history goes different if the characters "win" the campaign at level 20.

The final thing that is difficult about this in 5E is that healing is available to every class. One of the major plot elements in the original modules is that before Goldmoon, real clerics do not exist (and I think there are no Paladins or Druids either). Because of this there is no magical healing at all. It is a central theme to the setting but it is pretty difficult to implement in a game where all classes can get healing magic. A cleric in 5E is a much more diverse class, there is nothing "special" about them like in 1E and that makes for a difficult story to combine with the Dragonlance plot.