Dragonlance (+) What Would You Want From 5e Dragonlance?

[Hussar]

Really? The setting where you were expected to kill multiple dragons while riding your own pet dragon while wielding an artifact wasn’t gonzo enough? Heck the party collects multiple artifact level magic items throughout the modules.

And yeah, if your approach to the setting is shades of grey, I can see how you’d have a much different approach than me.

To me this was black hats vs white hats. No moral ambiguity whatsoever. Takhisis bad heroes good. Draconians are basically magically created aberrations without any redeeming qualities. Think angry slaad.

Then again I never had any issues with how the Cataclysm was presented either so I realize I’m probably a minority viewpoint here.

 

[Mecheon]

Really? The setting where you were expected to kill multiple dragons while riding your own pet dragon while wielding an artifact wasn’t gonzo enough?

That's not gonzo at all? That's just high fantasy. Positively mundane to some of the stuff going on at the time.

Like, in Mystara I could be hanging out with the skekkis on a giant gnomish flying city complete with bi-planes, meanwhile in Greyhawk I can get my hands on laser-guns to fight off reality-warping monstrosities like the Tirapheg and one of the gods got their hands on pistols from the Wild West. Dragonlance is nowhere near either of these.

To me this was black hats vs white hats. No moral ambiguity whatsoever

I warned you we're gonna be here for days....

Dragonlance tried for this, but failed. The so-called good gods did tremendous acts of evil in how the Cataclysm happened and made thousands of innocents suffer for the act of someone (That they couldn't do anything about in most every situation) who was not doing Good in the slighest. The so-called race of good, the elves, regularly engaged in slavery and cultural erasure of those they deemed less than themselves. Hollow lies, these so-called alignments people hold themselves to.

A race thought pre-destined towards evil turning away and going "You know what actually? No" just proves the hollow lies of the gods of Krynn and their continuation of mortal's suffering. Kill the gods, shatter their thrones

 

[Sithlord]

A good setting for good versus evil. A setting that really shows that evil happens when good people do nothing.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Ok, I gotta ask. This is a setting with walrus people. This is the setting that gave us playable minotaurs at a time when Drow were considered extreme. Saying that the DL modules were considered gonzo at the time is hardly a major stretch, is it? Granted, by today's standards, maybe not, but at the tiem? Heck, Dragonlance Adventures, at the time, was far, far more gonzo than anything for the system. Casters were upgunned. Remember how you got bonus caster levels depending on the phases of the moons? Never minding the cheese that was Solamnic Knights. Wahoo instant weapon specialization every time you got a new weapon prof. Every one of the Heroes of the Lance were wandering around with +3 or better weapons at pretty low levels and an actual GOD was an NPC.

Are you saying this wasn't a gonzo campaign?

Help me understand your argument, please. Are you saying that because DL has walrus people and…checks notes…Minotaur, it is “gonzo”, and because it is gonzo, they should add orcs and other races to the setting?

 

[Hussar]

Nope, I never said they should add orcs. That was someone else's claim.

I simply said that it was strange to claim that Dragonlance wasn't a setting for a bunch of different races. If you have minotaurs, walrus people and whatnot, adding in Tabaxi isn't a huge stretch. Orcs? Nope, never said that.

@Mecheon points to a single module as an example of how "gonzo" Greyhawk is. In DL, you've got several modules, ie. the entire base campaign, where the party is absolutely dripping with powerful magic items, artifacts, hob nobbing with the prime god of the setting, killing dragons, and frequently multiple dragons at a time. I dunno, I figure that riding a gold dragon while mowing down multiple evil dragons and carrying an artifact makes for a fairly gonzo setting. But, apparently, what do I know?

Yeah, I was trying for a bit of humour at the outset, mostly because I'd seen multiple people make these broad, sweeping claims about the way Dragonlance is, that seemed pretty oblivious to the content of the modules or the source material of the setting. Now, I'll be perfectly honest, I dropped out of DL in about 1995, give or take, so, anything from 5th Age passed me by entirely. And I didn't pay any attention to the 3e material. So, obviously, my take on the setting is somewhat dated.

But, limited races and limited magic? In Dragonlance? Seriously? That's your take on the setting? Man, they REALLY must have changed stuff after SAGA. Because it certainly wasn't like that at the outset.

((And, @Mecheon, yeah, we're not going to agree on this. I have zero problems with the Cataclysm. Multiple real world mythologies and religions have all sorts of myths and stories that are just as bad if not worse. At first reading, my first thought was, "Oh, D&D now has a flood myth". Getting all bent out of shape because a D&D setting takes pages from real world mythologies doesn't really faze me at all.))

 

[Libertad]

Dragonlance has long been a low-magic setting in comparison to the other major settings. Most wizards having to belong to one of three organizations or being declared renegades, and the anti-religious sentiment and loss of divine magic until Goldmoon's revelation were very different than Faerun and Greyhawk which had temples all over the place with lay priests who could provide healing services.

Most sourcebooks for Dragonlance, even those hearkening back to the original Chronicles, like the War of the Lance 3rd Edition sourcebook (which Weis & Hickman helped write) made many cases to showcase the rarity of magic. And the various artifacts were priceless relics from earlier Ages, but there were hardly any magic item shops.

My Let's Read is a good cover of this, along with other aspects of the setting. Aspects of character generation highlighted ways of playing an "authentic" Age of Despair game, which included restricting certain classes and magical traditions.

Dragonlance - [Let's Read] Dragonlance: War of the Lance

Happy New Year everyone! I figured that my Let’s Read for 2020 should cover an appropriately iconic Dungeons & Dragons setting: Dragonlance during the War of the Lance! As of 2020 the Dragonlance setting has had 4 official rulesets: 1st Edition AD&D, 2nd Edition AD&D, the unique SAGA System...

www.enworld.org

 

[Sithlord]

Dragonlance has long been a low-magic setting in comparison to the other major settings. Most wizards having to belong to one of three organizations or being declared renegades, and the anti-religious sentiment and loss of divine magic until Goldmoon's revelation were very different than Faerun and Greyhawk which had temples all over the place with lay priests who could provide healing services.

Most sourcebooks for Dragonlance, even those hearkening back to the original Chronicles, like the War of the Lance 3rd Edition sourcebook (which Weis & Hickman helped write) made many cases to showcase the rarity of magic. And the various artifacts were priceless relics from earlier Ages, but there were hardly any magic item shops.

My Let's Read is a good cover of this, along with other aspects of the setting. Aspects of character generation highlighted ways of playing an "authentic" Age of Despair game, which included restricting certain classes and magical traditions.

Dragonlance - [Let's Read] Dragonlance: War of the Lance

Happy New Year everyone! I figured that my Let’s Read for 2020 should cover an appropriately iconic Dungeons & Dragons setting: Dragonlance during the War of the Lance! As of 2020 the Dragonlance setting has had 4 official rulesets: 1st Edition AD&D, 2nd Edition AD&D, the unique SAGA System...

www.enworld.org

Conan is low magic. Camelot is low magic. Krynn not so much. I would even call Tolkien low magic. Is lack of magic shops the new definition of low magic. If so then I guess krynn is low magic. But guilds of high sorcery is a good sign of it not being low magic.

 

[Umbran]

Nope, was just using your quote as a springboard as an example of someone who clearly didn't have a good grasp of the setting making broad sweeping claims about what the setting "should be".

Mod Note:
"I don't agree with you, so you must be ignorant," is a personal insult failing to hide behind an implied appeal to authority. It needs to be struck from your rhetorical arsenal. Use it again, and you'll find yourself out of the discussion.

I hope that's clear, to everyone. If you cannot abide folks having different opinons about a game setting, or if you feel you must otherwise control the discussion on this topic, it is time for you to find another thread..

 

[Alzrius]

Is lack of magic shops the new definition of low magic. If so then I guess krynn is low magic.

Actually, Krynn has magic shops, such as The Three Moons, run by Jenna in her younger years.

 

[Faolyn]

Can you do this though and still be consistent with the story? In the original rules these characters, particularly Kender could not help themselves.

It was not a stereotype as described, it was a matter of their biology and DNA.

The problem is that they are written very... hypocritically. If that's the word I'm looking for.

Kender both fail to understand the concept of personal property, but also generally keep what they stole, instead of just redistributing what they take to whomever they feel needs it more. They should be known as givers, not takers, but they're not. This suggests that they do understand the concept of personal property; they just don't care.

Kender are supposedly fearless, but they lie when confronted about their stealing. The only reason for them to lie is if they fear the consequences of their actions and don't want to get in trouble.

Kender are supposedly innocent and kind, but one of their racial abilities is taunt. They can make fun of people in order to (emotionally) hurt and enrage them. In 5e terms, they'd likely have vicious mockery as a racial cantrip. This is neither innocent nor kind. And they can do this despite the fact they apparently speak too quickly to be easily understood.

For some reason, humans love kender, even though they constantly steal, touch things they shouldn't (due to their curiosity) and make fun of people just to get the riled up. And they can't, or won't, learn not to. And those races who don't love them kender considered to be in the wrong. But would you love an uncontrolled and unrepentant kleptomaniac who won't stop pushing buttons and making fun of people?

Whether or not these traits are hardwired into their fantasy DNA, it makes them, IMO, thoroughly unlikable.