D&D 5E Spellcasters and Balance in 5e: A Poll

[Maxperson]

He doesn't need to know because the MHL description says he can do it.

No it doesn't.

Also pickpockets routinely pull specific items out of bags, purses and packs in cities all across Europe.

ONLY if they KNOW where it is. None of them do it the way you want the mage hand to do it.

A purse is full of multiple objects and multiple compartments. When a pickpocket puts his hand in your purse to try and lift out your wallet, he is not going to come out with your car keys or your hand sanitizer. He is going to come out with your wallet if he isn't caught.

Thieves don't pickpocket purses. They snatch them for a reason. They pickpocket men who usually only have the wallet in that pocket.

 

[Maxperson]

Is a spell component pouch just full of loose crap though? I always imagined it sectioned off like a tacklebox.

Otherwise, every wizard is suddenly a bumbler like Paladine.

They would need to have lots of small pockets, but the Wizard is going to be the only one who knows which pocket has what in it. The Rogue MIGHT be able, if they make a rather astute check, know that he reached for the right or left side of the spell component pouch, but he's not going to know which of the many small pockets on that side he went to for that particular component.

 

[ECMO3]

Maybe you think the pouch is like a dice pouch. In order to hold all the components of a 20th level Wizard, these pouches are really more like small bags. There's no way you could locate the bat guano with the mage hand if you don't know where it is or get very lucky. And hell, is that lump bat guano(dried due to time), or a piece of dried flesh(animate dead), or an item distasteful to the target(Banishment), or soft clay for conjure elemental, or...

There is a way - magic.

I didn't make it up. RAW doesn't say that it has a sense of touch, so it doesn't unless you house rule it in.

Then it is clearly not needed to do the things it does. So it does not matter if I can tell what is and isn;t bat schite. It has no sense of feel, it just gets what I want.

The book never says it can. Never. It says you can take an object. It does not say you can take a specific object. It grants no ability to just know where and what every object on your target is. That's something YOU are making up.

It does not say you need to know where something is. It clearly says you can take something out of a container. It does not say you need to know where it is in that container. If that was intended it would say "you can take something out of a container if you know where it is in the container"

It does not say this.

Because, and stay with me here, YOU KNOW WHERE THE POTION IS.

But there is a second potion there too. How do I know I got the right one?

You still did not answer about the dice? How does it know it has the red 20-sided dice?

 

[Vaalingrade]

I feel like this is way too much discussion that can be cut short with 'I'm not going to let you completely obviate this enemy because TSR decided wizards as a class have to be annoying with a wide variety of pointless minutia'.

Which makes it all moot anyway because there is no way I'm ever going to run an actual wizard with a component pouch as an opponent. Way too much homework

 

[ECMO3]

They would need to have lots of small pockets, but the Wizard is going to be the only one who knows which pocket has what in it. The Rogue MIGHT be able, if they make a rather astute check, know that he reached for the right or left side of the spell component pouch, but he's not going to know which of the many small pockets on that side he went to for that particular component.

He doesn't need to know.

NOTHING in the spell description says he needs to know where it is in the container. You are making that up.

 

[Maxperson]

There is a way - magic.

Then show me where in the mage hand spell it says you can do it. Neither the spell description nor the class ability says you can do what you are claiming.

Then it is clearly not needed to do the things it does. So it does not matter if I can tell what is and isn;t bat schite. It has no sense of feel, it just gets what I want.

Not by RAW.

It does not say you need to know where something is. It clearly says you can take something out of a container. It does not say you need to know where it is in that container. If that was intended it would say "you can take something out of a container if you know where it is in the container"

Yep. You get something. You do not get a specific something.

But there is a second potion there too. How do I know I got the right one?

Because you know where they both are. And really, you're going to sleight of hand yourself to get a potion rather than just grabbing it? What happens if you catch yourself? Do you fail?

You still did not answer about the dice? How does it know it has the red 20-sided dice?

Since dice move around in a bag, he wouldn't and wouldn't be able to grab a specific color. Unless of course the bag had individual little pockets, in which case you know which one the red 20 is in.

 

[ECMO3]

I feel like this is way too much discussion that can be cut short with 'I'm not going to let you completely obviate this enemy because TSR decided wizards as a class have to be annoying with a wide variety of pointless minutia'.

You are not going to let a 3rd+ level Rogue steal a component when it is an ability of his class? Would you let a wizard hold person him, or let a cleric silence him? Both of those are doable by a 3-rd level character and they are both more debilitating to the wizard.

 

[ECMO3]

Then show me where in the mage hand spell it says you can do it. Neither the spell description nor the class ability says you can do what you are claiming.

Not by RAW.

Yep. You get something. You do not get a specific something.

Yes it does you can take something out of a container. It does not say a random thing. It does not say something that you know the location of in the container. If you needed to know the location in the container it would say you need to know the location. It does not say that.

This is clear it would say "you can take something out of a container if you know the location of it in the container".

You are adding stipulations that are not there in the description. Just like earlier you were claiming the hand would need to have tactile feel to do certain things.

Moreover as I pointed out earlier pickpockets (which this is clearly intended to replicate) routinely pull specific items out of other peoples purses which are filled with dozens of objects without knowing exactly where the thing they want is located in the purse.

 

[ECMO3]

No it doesn't.

ONLY if they KNOW where it is. None of them do it the way you want the mage hand to do it.

Thieves don't pickpocket purses. They snatch them for a reason. They pickpocket men who usually only have the wallet in that pocket.

Thieves do pickpockets. Moreover if you remember correctly you said earlier I could not snatch the whole pouch at your table now you are doubling back.

Thieves regularly take women's wallets out of their purses in Europe, or even more often fannypacks. They do steal the whole purse too.

 

[Maxperson]

Moreover as I pointed out earlier pickpockets (which this is clearly intended to replicate) routinely pull specific items out of other peoples purses which are filled with dozens of objects without knowing exactly where the thing they want is located in the purse.

Dude. There's a reason that they are called Cutpurses and Purse Snatchers. And pickPOCKETS. It's because it describes how they are able to steal those things. Thieves do not routinely pull specific items out of other people purses without knowing where those things are.