D&D General My Problem(s) With Halflings, and How To Create Engaging/Interesting Fantasy Races

[JiffyPopTart]

biology we get soft and lose eyes down in the dark hence we can't live down there.

Why doesn't every other Underdark beating get soft and lose their eyes?

 

[carkl3000]

I agree it is the distillation of the commoner.

Problem. Every single race has commoners. All of them. And halflings commoners are... commoners. Exactly like human commoners. Exactly like dragonborn commoners.

The issue is that "distillation of commoner" is still just a commoner and doesn't really do something that being a commoner doesn't achieve.

I don't agree.

 

[Bolares]

If there's one thing I can certainly take from this thread is... Thank God I have Eberron

 

[Neonchameleon]

To me, this seems like “an argument to the status quo”. The 538 article from 2017 (from where we are both pulling numbers) doesn’t control for the vast majority of races that you have to pay to use. So it is disingenuous to say that halflings are 5%-6% of all races played as if they are on an even footing with tabaxi that are only available if the player purchases Volo’s (a book that is otherwise very DM facing).

In the 2017 and the 2019 data they are ahead of gnomes, a race which they are on an even footing with by your definition. It seems disingenuous to claim that halflings are the great unpopular race when gnomes exist.

But back to the 5-6% figure. According to the 538 article, the halfling is the least played race of the core races.

Correction: according to the 538 article halflings (5.9%) are more played than both gnomes (4.6%) and half orcs (5.0%). Are you by some chance instead referring to the sidebar declaring some races to be uncommon? And do you realise that the four non-gnome "uncommon races" in D&D were, as of December 2020, the four most popular non-human races? While gnomes remained less popular than halflings.

The next least played? Dwarves with more than 50% MORE players than halflings! Halflings are a niche race. I think even those in favour of the status quo admit that.

And gnomes are in such a small niche that you seem unable to see them. They are also overlapping in niche with halflings. Halflings would have more of a niche without gnomes there.

Saying that you generally don’t play tieflings is obscuring the issue. From 538, it appears that tieflings are LESS of a niche race than halflings, despite having traditionally less promotion.

Well, yes. As of the start of 2019 dwarves were less of a niche race than both tieflings and dragonborn. As of the end of 2020 elves are less of a niche race than tieflings. Or dragonborn. And this despite both less promotion of those races and those races both being strongly associated with 4e.

"Is less popular than tieflings" is not remotely the criticism you think it is.

It seems to me that there is never a shortage of people arguing to maintain the status quo, despite the fact that the status quo does not reflect the extraordinary change in our hobby in the last 5 years. I think that is the shame.

Who are these people? Where are they?

I've said throughout three things.
1: There is no consistent argument based on popularity for the elimination of halflings from the PHB that doesn't involve doing unto gnomes first.
2: It would be a bad plan to remove halflings and gnomes at the same time because they have significantly related niches.
3: Halflings have a unique niche in a way gnomes don't - but gnomes are sitting in some of the niches that could easily fit halflings.

Just because people oppose the changes that you personally want doesn't mean they oppose all changes. It means that they oppose the changes you are proposing. And opposing anything based on misrepresentation of data.

 

[Bolares]

Let's not shoot the poor gnomes under the bus when trying to defend halflings please

 

[Neonchameleon]

I want to expand halfling lore, to give them something outside of the farms. I never once said I wanted to burn all the farms to the ground, salt the earth, and deny all halflings from ever setting foot on a farm again.

The problem is that you personally may just be the worst person on the planet to expand halfling lore.

It is obvious you don't get halflings and their appeal. You've said that and continued to not get it even when it's been explained to you. You also don't like halflings, possibly because you don't get them. And you are clearly deeply passionate on the subject based on the dozens of posts you've made on this thread.

If you don't get the appeal then any changes you make can only be from the perspective of someone who misses the appeal and is therefore unable to make things that will appeal to those that like them because you don't understand why.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

can you please define what is so likeable about halflings with bullet points please so we at least know what they are liked for?

Why don't you scroll through the previous 150+ pages, make notes each time a poster explained why they like Halflings, then come back and post your findings ...

 

[Mind of tempest]

Why don't you scroll through the previous 150+ pages, make notes each time a poster explained why they like Halflings, then come back and post your findings ...

I have but it seem to boil down to a thing that only really works once in a setting.

 

[Cadence]

can you please define what is so likeable about halflings with bullet points please so we at least know what they are liked for?

• They're a small race without the baggage of being innately magical and like miniature elves
• They aren't an invasive species like the other widely used small race
  
• They remind me of five of my favorite characters in fantasy literature
• They make great underdogs
• They make a great B&B theme This Airbnb Feels Like a Real-life Hobbit House Straight Out of Middle-earth — but It's Right Here in the U.S.
• They aren't over-used like elves and dwarves
• They aren't new fangled and un-D&D feeling (unless you liked 4th) like Tieflings and Dragonborn
• They weren't made to obviously suit the gods' needs
• One of my first pair of characters was a Halfling
• Moldvay thought they were worth an entire character class, and his version of the game was pretty boss
• They'll bean you with a sling stone in the noggin if you don't agree with my list
• Kender will hopefully be written out of Dragonlance

 

[Mind of tempest]

• They're a small race without the baggage of being innately magical and like miniature elves
• They aren't an invasive species like the other widely used small race
  
• They remind me of five of my favorite characters in fantasy literature
• They make great underdogs
• They make a great B&B theme This Airbnb Feels Like a Real-life Hobbit House Straight Out of Middle-earth — but It's Right Here in the U.S.
• They aren't over-used like elves and dwarves
• They aren't new fangled and un-D&D feeling (unless you liked 4th) like Tieflings and Dragonborn
• They weren't made to obviously suit the gods' needs
• One of my first pair of characters was a Halfling
• Moldvay thought they were worth an entire character class, and his version of the game was pretty boss
• They'll bean you with a sling stone in the noggin if you don't agree with my list
• Kender will hopefully be written out of Dragonlance

so a small race.
that is not applicable.
do you only read the hobbit and lotr?
anyone can be an underdog and the reverse is also true it depends on context.
name a fantasy race that would not make a good airbnb theme?
they are not overused literally because there is almost nothing to them.
how do they feel un dnd they were made for dnd?
depends on what a god wants, your list there is technically a viable god race making criteria.
that is nice for you but irrelevant from whether something works.
and what did the class do?
you will need heavier stones.
we are far more likely to never see dragonlance again than that.