D&D General My Problem(s) With Halflings, and How To Create Engaging/Interesting Fantasy Races

[Dannyalcatraz]

How much training would it need? Even with guns the military doesn't just send new people out without time at the range do they? And trained law enforcement officers don't have a great hit rate.

Controlling rotational movement in an attacking situation isn’t as easy as most would think.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Huh. I used to make slings when I was a kid (not much else to do on the farm) and I always thought it was pretty simple. Arrows were easier to aim accurately though. Regardless, I don't see that it really matters. Slings are simple and cheap which is why I associate them to rural commoners, shepherds and halflings in my head.

Well, accuracy is the key, isn’t it? I mean, it doesn’t matter much if you’re launching something at a mass of targets, but if you’re trying to nail a particular one? And it’s being aggressive in your general direction?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Huh. I used to make slings when I was a kid (not much else to do on the farm) and I always thought it was pretty simple. Arrows were easier to aim accurately though. Regardless, I don't see that it really matters. Slings are simple and cheap which is why I associate them to rural commoners, shepherds and halflings in my head.

Controlling rotational movement in an attacking situation isn’t as easy as most would think.

And yet, they’ve been a common weapon for shepherds and farmers for thousands of years for a reason.

 

[Oofta]

Well, accuracy is the key, isn’t it? I mean, it doesn’t matter much if you’re launching something at a mass of targets, but if you’re trying to nail a particular one? And it’s being aggressive in your general direction?

Couldn't say how much easier or harder it would be in combat compared to a bow. Most lethal thing I ever faced were empty cans.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I think that you're the one who has missed the point.


Or they might have other weapons.

And you already have missed the entire point of the example. This isn't a discussion of possibilities. This was a simplified summary of events. It did not require your input, unless you wanted to discuss the events in question.

I'll read the rest, just to see if there are any interesting discussion points, but there is zero point in responding to any accusations because you have fundamentally misunderstood what I was saying.

Third, if halflings live in an area prone to gnoll raids, they would make barriers of one sort or another (as I mentioned to Hussar, things like ha-has are right up their alley). Even if all they did was slow intruders down rather than stop them, that still gives the halflings an enormous advantage.

If the scenario had been "halfling village in an area prone to gnoll raids" then that might be a good counter point.

The scenario wasn't that. It was "typical halfling village" that was being hit by a gnoll raid. Again. If the other side is shifting the goalposts and the scenario, why is that my concern?

And again: not saying that all halflings will or must do this (I'm repeating this because you have a bad habit of taking everything anyone says on face value and claiming that they meant it to be always true all the time). But you can bet that halflings who live in a magical world, and especially those that live in a particularly dangerous area, would have developed defenses beyond slings or bows.

Will these defenses work all the time? No, of course not. Even in the best-case scenarios there are going to be halfling casualties. But it all means that halflings aren't just sitting ducks.

I can imagine many things. I'd like to imagine that when a poster puts forth the premise of "halflings, only using slings" I'm not going to get attacked for participating with that premise instead of imaging that the halfligns are protected by dragons.

If your entire problem is with the premise, I'm not the one to talk to.

Sigh. This is why I put you on ignore in the first place. Your complete unwillingness to actually imagine things.

You mean not allowing a poster to get away with changing the scenario at the drop of a hat just to win?

I mean, I could have responded to the cover by "imagining" that the Gnolls have trained Bullete's who burrow under the halflings and eat them from below. But, this wasn't a scenario about gnoll raiders and a pack of Bulletes. so I didn't do that.

If you are insulted by my willingness to keep to the premise proposed, then I don't know what to tell you, just making up new additions to the premise has never seemed like a very effective way of having a conversation

I think we can both agree that a typical halfling homeland consists of rolling hills, on which bushes, tall grasses, farm crops, copses and windbreaks of trees, and various above-ground houses, barns, silos, sheds, and so on. Y'know, farm country. So that's where the cover comes from. I realize that battlemaps are flat, but actual land isn't.

Actually, Neonchameleon said it was four ft high walls, hidden in the dirt until it was time to raise them for a gnoll attack. They felt that was a reasonable thing for the village to have.

Two, the halflings aren't pinned down. Since they've likely lived in that area for a few generations, they know the land very well--much, much better than the gnolls do. If you spent your childhood in an area playing tag and hide-and-go-seek, then as an adult in the same area, you gain the home field advantage. You know that place like the back of your hand.

Halflings are running around from one bit of cover to the next. Since these halflings live in gnoll country, they likely have put halfling-friendly cover in 20-foot increments, giving them ample opportunities to run and hide. Those ornamental bushes that line the streets? Both pretty and cover-providing.

And if the gnolls have a readied action, they shoot them when they run from one cover to the next. Which is why I said they were pinned.

Also, this is again the assumption that they are in Gnoll Country, which was not the original premise.

Finally, strange how these halflings who aren't martially minded at all are making sure to grow their decorative shrubs to maximize their strategic value in a fight. But, I'm sure that's just my lack of imagination making it sound like they are becoming more and more like trained soldiers instead of just simple common folk, in making sure they have figured out the sight lines to take full advantage in a ranged attack versus raiders

That's fine. Give them all bows. Every halfling village has at least one bowyer, or arbalest, or whatever a person who makes crossbows is called. They may not be the world's best bowyers, but they're good enough. Slings are traditional but aren't required.

You'd think they weren't. But Neonchameleon. Oofta, and others were very adamant that giving them anythign other than slings was an insult to the halfling ideal.

I mean, if it was fine to use other weapons, you'd think that when I just suggested doing that they'd be okay with it instead of telling me how wrong I was.

No you aren't. Nobody has said that.

Humans could easily all carry slings. Go on, give all your humans slings. Nobody is going to care or complain if you do. The only reason all humans don't carry slings is because, way back when, the game designers decided that slings were a halfling thing and humans were stuck with everything else.

I'd quote you NeonChameleon saying exactly that, the post where he was talking about how humans made a hierarchical society, so they would rely on a militia instead of a community of slingers, you can actually see my post where I answered his demand for real-life historical human communities that had everyone using slings, stating that he would "drop his objection" if I could prove that any humans ever did that. However, he blocked me after I provided that proof, because he took offense to me telling Oofta that militia's aren't mercenaries because how dare I twist things to make militia's into mercenaries.

So, yet again just like every time before that someone has told me "no one ever said that", yes, they did.

 

[Chaosmancer]

For the Dwarves, it looks like they don't make many connections to go ask for help from...


... but their homes are written up in the section on "Strongholds" So of the four primary races, I agree that Dwarves probably don't go asking for help very often as written in 5e!

I didn't see anything in Mordenkainen's about the elves having anything special for defense, or about enemies. I'm not sure why a small peaceful group of elves in the forest wouldn't take a bunch of Gnolls seriously and possibly be in trouble depending on numbers. I wonder how much the worry changes with the rainfall. I imagine living in the forest for the elves would be a lot riskier in the dry season. (For Halflings, do grass fires burn quickly enough that sheltering in burrows would save them... but not their crops?).

For elves it is really really easy. Especially with wood elves.

Longbows are insanely effective weapons that all elves have. They very often have homes in the trees, meaning that they are above the enemy and shooting down, never in melee range. Additionally, the ability to hide in any natural cover means that they can hide in the canopies of trees, ambushing the enemy who is going through the forest.

It does require them having scouts on the borders, but they traditionally do have that.


I guess it is also that I never imagine "small numbers" of elves. They are always a town or more, just spread throughout the forest, and with a very clear military bent towards protecting their borders. Elves are scary with even a little forethought, and they have been traditionally been depicted using that forethought. Though, fire is a MAJOR concern.

 

[Neonchameleon]

The history of the sling is entirely new to me. So thank you for the earlier quotes!

They seemed to have been used a lot later than I thought they had been...

View attachment 140799

and at some earlier points they seem to have had an advantage over the bows...

View attachment 140800

Was the training required to effectively use a bow in combat that much less than the sling? Was the training of the greatest bowmen (English longbow?) similar to that of the Balearic slingers?

First, the English/Welsh longbow wasn't the greatest ever. It might have been the greatest peasant bow - but it was a straight bow made from a single stave of yew wood; recurve composite or laminate bows allowed more force for the same draw weight, could be held drawn much more easily, and could even be made asymmetric to help with horse archery and not hitting the horse. But the Mongol, Samurai, Turkish, and other bows that were better were all, so far as I recall, associated with horse rather than foot archery.

Second, it depends when we're talking about bows how effective bows vs slings are. Slings have always been harder to learn to use, but a modern sling is almost indistinguishable from a 3000 year old sling. On the other hand if we look at a modern competitive bow like the one below it's barely recognisable from an ancient world bow. Bow technology has changed massively over the centuries and is still developing. For that matter arrowhead technology also changed over time.

 

[Oofta]

And you already have missed the entire point of the example. This isn't a discussion of possibilities. This was a simplified summary of events. It did not require your input, unless you wanted to discuss the events in question.

I'll read the rest, just to see if there are any interesting discussion points, but there is zero point in responding to any accusations because you have fundamentally misunderstood what I was saying.



If the scenario had been "halfling village in an area prone to gnoll raids" then that might be a good counter point.

The scenario wasn't that. It was "typical halfling village" that was being hit by a gnoll raid. Again. If the other side is shifting the goalposts and the scenario, why is that my concern?



I can imagine many things. I'd like to imagine that when a poster puts forth the premise of "halflings, only using slings" I'm not going to get attacked for participating with that premise instead of imaging that the halfligns are protected by dragons.

If your entire problem is with the premise, I'm not the one to talk to.



You mean not allowing a poster to get away with changing the scenario at the drop of a hat just to win?

I mean, I could have responded to the cover by "imagining" that the Gnolls have trained Bullete's who burrow under the halflings and eat them from below. But, this wasn't a scenario about gnoll raiders and a pack of Bulletes. so I didn't do that.

If you are insulted by my willingness to keep to the premise proposed, then I don't know what to tell you, just making up new additions to the premise has never seemed like a very effective way of having a conversation



Actually, Neonchameleon said it was four ft high walls, hidden in the dirt until it was time to raise them for a gnoll attack. They felt that was a reasonable thing for the village to have.




And if the gnolls have a readied action, they shoot them when they run from one cover to the next. Which is why I said they were pinned.

Also, this is again the assumption that they are in Gnoll Country, which was not the original premise.

Finally, strange how these halflings who aren't martially minded at all are making sure to grow their decorative shrubs to maximize their strategic value in a fight. But, I'm sure that's just my lack of imagination making it sound like they are becoming more and more like trained soldiers instead of just simple common folk, in making sure they have figured out the sight lines to take full advantage in a ranged attack versus raiders



You'd think they weren't. But Neonchameleon. Oofta, and others were very adamant that giving them anythign other than slings was an insult to the halfling ideal.

I mean, if it was fine to use other weapons, you'd think that when I just suggested doing that they'd be okay with it instead of telling me how wrong I was.



I'd quote you NeonChameleon saying exactly that, the post where he was talking about how humans made a hierarchical society, so they would rely on a militia instead of a community of slingers, you can actually see my post where I answered his demand for real-life historical human communities that had everyone using slings, stating that he would "drop his objection" if I could prove that any humans ever did that. However, he blocked me after I provided that proof, because he took offense to me telling Oofta that militia's aren't mercenaries because how dare I twist things to make militia's into mercenaries.

So, yet again just like every time before that someone has told me "no one ever said that", yes, they did.

For the last time, I have never said they would only use slings.

I associate slings with halflings and think of it as a weapon for people with little money or that want something simple and easy to carry and maintain. You were the one going on and on about how only crossbows would be sufficient which I think is dumb.

Stop making **** up.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

And yet, they’ve been a common weapon for shepherds and farmers for thousands of years for a reason.

Of course! “Requiring skill” doesn’t mean commoners can’t learn to use it.

It’s a commoner’s weapon because it’s cheap and simple to make. Anybody posting here could probably make a functional one without any prior training.

Add to that the fact that ammunition for it can literally be found in almost any square yard on the planet. I mean, shot is nice, but a rock or broken brick will do.

 

[Oofta]

Of course! “Requiring skill” doesn’t mean commoners can’t learn to use it.

It’s a commoner’s weapon because it’s cheap and simple to make. Anybody posting here could probably make a functional one without any prior training.

Add to that the fact that ammunition for it can literally be found in almost any square yard on the planet. I mean, shot is nice, but a rock or broken brick will do.

Ball bearings are the best. Not that I have any personal experience, mind you.