D&D 5E Spear houserule

[Sword of Spirit]

I hadn‘t come across the idea that reach only applied when used two-handed, but if that‘s the case it is an easy adjustment to the houserule. At that point the properties become: Versatile (1d8), Special. Then you have an entry specifying that it has the Reach property when wielded in two hands, and the Thrown property when wielded in one hand (if desired).

That could resolve the NPC battlefield ramifications, but wouldn‘t really do much from the PC side, since if you wanted to play a two-handed spear you would use a pike for superior damage, and if you wanted to use one handed with spear and be able to throw it you would use javelins. The Versatile property almost never comes up after character creation, because it is almost never worthwhile to switch between one-handed and two-handed with the same weapon.

At that point the house rule doesn’t accomplish half of its intent, because on the PC side it just effectively makes a pike that does less damage but can be used by Small creatures—and the intent wasn‘t to improve Reach access for Small characters but to improve the spear for Medium warriors.

I’m less concerned about the effects of Polearm Master and Sentinel, since, because we are already using house rules, I think it‘s more desirable to make the basic game work well without feats and change a feat if it breaks something than the other way around.

How does the balance look to giving it one-handed reach if the feats aren‘t an issue? (Pretend that the spear’s Reach only applies one-handed when you take the Attack action (not on opportunity attacks), and that PAM’s first bullet point only works with a spear or quarterstaff when wielded with two-hands.)

 

[ECMO3]

I hadn‘t come across the idea that reach only applied when used two-handed, but if that‘s the case it is an easy adjustment to the houserule. At that point the properties become: Versatile (1d8), Special. Then you have an entry specifying that it has the Reach property when wielded in two hands, and the Thrown property when wielded in one hand (if desired).

That could resolve the NPC battlefield ramifications, but wouldn‘t really do much from the PC side, since if you wanted to play a two-handed spear you would use a pike for superior damage, and if you wanted to use one handed with spear and be able to throw it you would use javelins. The Versatile property almost never comes up after character creation, because it is almost never worthwhile to switch between one-handed and two-handed with the same weapon.

At that point the house rule doesn’t accomplish half of its intent, because on the PC side it just effectively makes a pike that does less damage but can be used by Small creatures—and the intent wasn‘t to improve Reach access for Small characters but to improve the spear for Medium warriors.

I’m less concerned about the effects of Polearm Master and Sentinel, since, because we are already using house rules, I think it‘s more desirable to make the basic game work well without feats and change a feat if it breaks something than the other way around.

How does the balance look to giving it one-handed reach if the feats aren‘t an issue? (Pretend that the spear’s Reach only applies one-handed when you take the Attack action (not on opportunity attacks), and that PAM’s first bullet point only works with a spear or quarterstaff when wielded with two-hands.)

It isn't. A whip is reach and is 1-handed. BUT it is a martial weapon AND only does d4 damage.

The real problem with spears being reach mechanically is those with simple weapon proficiency can stay back behind the fighters and make attacks with their proficiecny bonus and get AOOs at range without being in melee combat themselves.

I think when the rules say "spear" they mean a simple weapon used by peasants which does not have abilities like reach. I think Pike can pretty easily fill the role of a professional-grade "reach spear" (that is really what it is). If that is the build you want just use a Pike and call it a long spear. If you are not proficient, well that is kind of the point right?

 

[Yaarel]

In previous editions in D&D, reach was broken.

In 5e, reach is balanced, and makes sense.

The difference is, in 5e, there is only one reaction per round, thus only one opportunity attack. It matters less if the one attack is adjacent or at reach.

 

[Yaarel]

If the "grid" was 3-foot squares, instead of 5, there would be more granularity to better represent weapons.

But in the meantime, allowing spears to gain reach while two-handed, seems like a fine simplification. The spear is an important weapon. It even deserves "plot protection" like a sword does. It having reach is appropriate.

 

[Yaarel]

I hadn‘t come across the idea that reach only applied when used two-handed, but if that‘s the case it is an easy adjustment to the houserule. At that point the properties become: Versatile (1d8), Special. Then you have an entry specifying that it has the Reach property when wielded in two hands, and the Thrown property when wielded in one hand (if desired).

That could resolve the NPC battlefield ramifications, but wouldn‘t really do much from the PC side, since if you wanted to play a two-handed spear you would use a pike for superior damage, and if you wanted to use one handed with spear and be able to throw it you would use javelins. The Versatile property almost never comes up after character creation, because it is almost never worthwhile to switch between one-handed and two-handed with the same weapon.

At that point the house rule doesn’t accomplish half of its intent, because on the PC side it just effectively makes a pike that does less damage but can be used by Small creatures—and the intent wasn‘t to improve Reach access for Small characters but to improve the spear for Medium warriors.

I’m less concerned about the effects of Polearm Master and Sentinel, since, because we are already using house rules, I think it‘s more desirable to make the basic game work well without feats and change a feat if it breaks something than the other way around.

How does the balance look to giving it one-handed reach if the feats aren‘t an issue? (Pretend that the spear’s Reach only applies one-handed when you take the Attack action (not on opportunity attacks), and that PAM’s first bullet point only works with a spear or quarterstaff when wielded with two-hands.)

I am thinking the versatility itself should bump up the dice twice.

Longsword 1d8 slash (versatile 1d12)
Spear 1d6 pierce (versatile 1d10, reach if two-handed)
etcetera

For historical reasons, I would rather see players wield a longsword (claymore) or a spear, than a "greatsword" or a pike.

 

[Stormonu]

Yeah, I think errata’ing Polearm Master to only work when using the weapon 2-handed rather than giving up on spears with reach is the way to go.

But quite honestly, when wizards can drop AoE fireballs 20 feet in diameter that do damage even when you make the save at 5th level, is a Sentinel/PAM fighter with spear & shield really that bad?

 

[Willie the Duck]

Yeah, I think errata’ing Polearm Master to only work when using the weapon 2-handed rather than giving up on spears with reach is the way to go.

But quite honestly, when wizards can drop AoE fireballs 20 feet in diameter that do damage even when you make the save at 5th level, is a Sentinel/PAM fighter with spear & shield really that bad?

I alluded to the base notion up above. Casters don't need weapons or weapon feats, and tend to dominate the game unless the DM has an truly solid grip on not allowing a 5/15-minute workday. That's why my preferred solution isn't to nerf the existing uber martial builds so much as boost the less impressive ones (letting PAM work with spears actually was one of these boosts, now we need something similar for two-weapon fighting, martials with maces, other sword-and-board options, etc.).

That said, I don't think it is fireball*, nor the 1/2 damage on saves, is the primary reason. For direct damage I'd look at Spirit Guardians or Animate Objects, and the real killers are (as always) battlefield control, minionmancy (including Simulacrum and Planar Bindings), character swapout (such as polymorph), entire-encounter-negating divinations, and of course Wish.
*Which I will say at the 5th level you specifically mentioned is something of a runaway hit, but overall is certainly not the biggest contributor to caster dominance.

 

[Tinker-TDC]

The real problem with spears being reach mechanically is those with simple weapon proficiency can stay back behind the fighters and make attacks with their proficiecny bonus and get AOOs at range without being in melee combat themselves.

This seems like it should not be the problem but the goal of spears. Letting big lines of untrained people double-up.

However, my personal fix is just upping spears to d8/d10 if the user has Martial weapon proficiency. No problem with it as of yet. Originally we considered a possible issue of it being the only d8 thrown weapon but DEX already had the rapier as their sole d8 finesse weapon and STR can really use any boost it can get.

 

[PsyzhranV2]

RAW, they are also Heavy, 2H, and Martial.

If you add Reach to a Spear and change nothing else, as the OP suggests, you now have a weapon that is Light, 1H, Simple, and Reach. Which means that, except for druids and wizards, everyone could have a reach weapon.

If you look at what weapons have Reach, it is pretty clear that they were meant to be kept only in the hands of martials.

So wait, are you arguing for realism or for gameplay balance now??? I'm confused.

 

[Umbran]

Personally, I’d set the spear (pun intended) to have the Thrown property when used one-handed, but when used two-handed, it has the Reach property. It then becomes a half-step between javelin and pike and really versatile (pun intended again).

Reasonable. Though, I think that means that when a character is not specifically doing something with the off hand, the spear effectively has both, as swapping between two and one handed when both hands are free should be effortless. I think I'd be okay with that, though. Being the only simple weapon with reach would make it very attractive in the world, even if most PCs have better options.