D&D 5E Can your Druids wear metal armor?

[mrpopstar]

I've seen it and lived through it. Wasn't fun.

Heck, the "pull you by your nose" led to one of the worst con expeirences I ever had, where the DM decided that since he knew everyone except me and this one other guy that one of us was going to be the butt of his jokes. Different system, but my Noble Duelist spent the better part of an hour being described in detail how he was dealing with the literal naughty word in the bilge of a ship, just being the butt of all the jokes.

One of only two things I remember from that game. The other being the only time my character got a chance to fight (in a four to five hour game) being against a boss, and him following his code and willing to die to save a kid. A concept that gob-smacked every "regular" at that table, because I guess this was a flashback to a living campaign and they couldn't understand why I was perfectly willing to let my character (who I'd scribbled together just a few hours before) die to have a single cool moment.

I'm sorry you had to sit through that. That sounds awful.

I'd never think you were. But positions have to almost be overstated sometimes on these forums.

Thank you. And I agree that sometimes things need to be spelled out and highly emphasized 'round these here parts.

I get that they exist for a reason, I just don't think that reason has anything to do with me. I rarely even end up writing them down.

For example, I have a friend who started running a game for us set in a world where the bad guys won. The Evil Overlord took over the world, he's currently fighting the gods who are trying to prevent his ascent to true godhood, and the rest of us are living in his evil empire.

My character is an artificer, and I figured he had two really defining moments to shape his outlook on life. One was a very large man, probably a minotaur, being an abusive bully to people around him when he was a child. Cementing in him that idea that the strong make the rules. The other seeing a smaller person using a pulley system and a lift to raise up something like an engine that that minotaur for all his strength couldn't lift. Power doesn't only come from physical strength, tools can be a path to power. That is why his "virtue name" as a Tielfing is Lyft, to remind him of that moment.

If I had to say he had a flaw... he still thinks he can keep his head down and live a safe life. He's not a coward per se, but he certainly defers and is trying to just keep out of trouble. This is of course impossible considering he is in debt to a mafia and befriending a druid (one of the only groups still fighting the Overlord and therefore basically a terrorist, plus the guy is very much "burn the empire") and a paladin (who are all supposed to be dead, so basically a zombie terrorist).

But, this is enough for me and the DM wasn't really a part of this other than me asking questions like how he saw the society working.

If I were your Dungeon Master, our conversation about your character would go something like...

"I keep my head down and avoid confrontation" and "I just want to live a safe life" are a clear personality traits! Those definitely set him apart from every other character.

I think "the strong make the rules" and "tools are a path to power" are excellent insights gleaned from experience. Do either of them inform an ideal that compels him to fight for something he believes in?

What is the nature of his relationship with the druid and paladin? What bonds them together?

"I'm in debt to the mafia" is a clear flaw! That's easily something that can be exploited.

I agree with reminding players of their own character traits. I don't use alignment, because it is far too simplistic and contradictory (not getting into the alignment debate here), but if a player is struggling to figure out what their character would do, I see the value in helping to highlight the question.

Yeah, it's just a gentle nudge that reminds you of what you intend for your character.

It's easy to get caught up in the moment, or to be overwhelmed by a choice with high stakes. Having a compass is helpful in that regard, and that's all the personality characteristics are (a compass).

That bold part is the part that bugs me. It is a contrived reason from an older edition that makes no sense. You might as well say that Monks can't wear blue clothes. If it at least made some sense, it would bother me less, but it doesn't.

Did you have any thoughts about what I posted here?

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I'm not approaching it from that angle. I have listed my priorities multiple multiple times. my first issue is that the logic of the concept makes no sense. Seeing metal as unnatural is as stupid an idea as saying that bones are unnatural.

For thematics of fantasy game it makes perfect sense. Of course everything is natural in a sense that is part of nature; uranium is natural so nukes are natural! But this is not what the theme means!

However, you can't help yourself. You have to accuse me of powergaming and it being about mechanics again and again. And, I'm aware enough to see that there is a mechanical element to this, so I acknowledge it and discuss it, because you are so desperate to talk about it.

I was trying to honestly engage wit your concerns. You keep talking about mechanical roles and comparing numbers to those of other classes, so it kinda seems that is important to you!

If the sage advice had said that the Druid would be overpowered if they wore Half-Plate, then I would acknowledge that fact and try to examine it. But, the Sage advice was perfectly clear. A druid in Half-Plate (metal or not) is within the expected power of the class. It is not more powerful than the designers intended. There is no powergaming.

That Crawford says druids do no become overpowered if you give them better armour is not the same than it being expected. Also this is the guy who thought that twilight cleric was perfectly balanced thing to put in the game, so sorry if I take his opinion on this with a grain of salt!

And shock of all shocks, it isn't a balance issue. Like I've said. Repeatedly. Again and again, over and over.

Then why you keep comparing their AC to that of other classes?

Do I see value in nerfing druids just so you can have your fur-clad wildmen stereotypes? No. I think that you could just let the people who care about the tradition choose for themselves to do so, but you are convinced that if you relax your guard for a single second then every druid player everywhere will suddenly be wearing the armor that they are allowed to wear, and that is perfectly acceptable to the power of the game, and that would be terrible because it would look bad in your mind's eye.

Having them stick to what rules currently allow is not a nerf. Giving them more than they currently get like you want however is a buff. And as I've said many times, mechanically incentivising things that go against the theme of the class is terrible game design. It is the literal opposite of what class design should do.

So, yeah, if you absolutely can't stand the thought, just make them non-proficient and then people can find ways to get the proficiency.

Boring and thematically weak, but close enough.

Personally? I just acknowledge that metal typically comes from the planet, and therefore is natural.

But didn't you want to wear a starmetal armour?

You could do that. I actually thought the idea of having them be able to buff hide armor as they gained levels was a good idea, though I think that Yaarel was right and that is better as a subclass than for all druids. Because, again, not all druids are the same. They believe in and worship different things.

But at some point it is better to just accept that concept really is not a druid any more and would be better represented by a cleric.

 

[Maxperson]

I said this before: why is this any different than having sidequests to gain gold so that paladin can buy their full plate? And if you say many enemies happen to carry gold anyway, so it can happen along other adventures, then the same applies to animal bits. A lot of enemies have parts that are useful for crafting non-metal armour.

Animal bits to make plate? Like what? What has an AC high enough that's an animal?

 

[mrpopstar]

Animal bits to make plate? Like what? What has an AC high enough that's an animal?

Dire pangolin?

 

[Oofta]

Dire pangolin?

You jest, but there is pangolin scale armor. I mean, admittedly it's made out of horn but still

 

[mrpopstar]

You jest, but there is pangolin scale armor. I mean, admittedly it's made out of horn but still

View attachment 141853

Beautiful!

(Though I don't support fashioning items out of animal horns in real life. Yuck.)

 

[Maxperson]

You jest, but there is pangolin scale armor. I mean, admittedly it's made out of horn but still

View attachment 141853

Scale is not plate.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Animal bits to make plate? Like what? What has an AC high enough that's an animal?

Turtle? Umber hulk? Bulette? In any case, my suggestion was that non-magical, non-metal equivalents of traditional metal amours would have one point lower AC than metal ones so that they simply do not become superior choice over metal versions. I think that's good enough, and magical version can have the normal AC.

 

[Maxperson]

Turtle? Umber hulk? Bulette? In any case, my suggestion was that non-magical, non-metal equivalents of traditional metal amours would have one point lower AC than metal ones so that they simply do not become superior choice over metal versions. I think that's good enough, and magical version can have the normal AC.

Turtles don't have high enough AC. Umber Hulks and Bulettes are unnatural, which makes them at a minimum as bad as metal armor.

Edit: And they are not really a superior choice, due to rarity. It's not as if the king can kill 10,000 bulettes in order to make his army better plate. They would also be far rarer for PCs. You couldn't go to a store and just buy it.

 

[Oofta]

Scale is not plate.

I never said it was. There have been, however, armors throughout history that would IMHO qualify as at least scale mail if not breastplate. Heck there was 18th century fabric armor. Admittedly the helmet in this case was reinforced by iron, but the protagonists in fantasy film hardly ever wear helmets so I guess PCs don't need them.

But there are plenty of examples including armor made of wood, rattan and so on. Metal may be easier to maintain and more resistant to damage, and metal probably works better for the heaviest armor (until modern times of course) but D&D isn't a reality simulator.

In any case, saying you can't have alternative materials better than hide I think is just lack of imagination as well as not acknowledging historical examples.

EDIT: and I wasn't answering the question about plate, I was just pointing out that non-metallic armor that looked like pangolin scales was a thing. Now if we had dire pangolin, maybe it would be an option.