D&D General Why Exploration Is the Worst Pillar

[Vaalingrade]

In fact, I didn't miss it and acknowledged it in the very post you quoted. Certain aspects of exploration are pointless in the games you play. They're sometimes pointless in the games I play (since I vary what kinds of games I run in D&D 5e).

I feel that it can be made into something that works with other playstyles though, it's just that no one has bothered trying to salvage it. 5e certainly wouldn't try because it is trying to hard to make OSR fans love it without making any commitments.

I think the issue with making usable exploration rules is striking a balance between montaging and having the full experience of exploration. Some people prefer to use skill challenges to montage while others prefer to play out hacking through jungle vines with machetes for four hours.

Trying to come up with a structure for this where resource management and time crunches are optional. Perhaps random encounters are consequences rather than expectations? Most players I know see them as either punishments for daring to travel or free chances at treasure anyway.

So maybe a skill challenge structure where success results in cool locations / montage and failure results in random encounter.

I've been playing with the idea of 'location rewards' like healing springs, secret villages of crafters/allies, growing spots for potion-generating vegetation, etc.

 

[iserith]

I love how you debunked pretty much every argument he made against the importance of resource management. We think alike.

And to be extra clear - nobody is required to like resource management!

It's not a great fit for every game that can be played in D&D 5e. If you don't like it, don't use it! But don't sit there and say it can't be done.

 

[Vaalingrade]

If the DM requires light management, the solution is burning everything.

 

[mrpopstar]

Last time I checked, create water was 1st level. As was Goodberry. Create Food and Water is 3rd, but, Purify Food and Drink, which means you can eat and drink pretty much anything, is 1st.

Fair enough, I'd actually forgotten about create and destroy water

A waterskin carries 4 pints of liquid. That's half a day's water for a medium creature. Running low on water is literally the most efficient way to start racking up levels of exhaustion.

Unless your Dungeon Master has stocked the dungeon or wilderness with a barrel or small cask, create water isn't going to be much use as you need an open container that can accommodate at least 4 gallons if you want to supply the average party with a day's worth of water.
You need to have either a cleric or a druid in your party to even consider the option. Not every party has one of those, and unless you're entering into a situation where they can anticipate having to prepare the spell, they're not going to do so until after everyone has faced a Medium DC skill check to try and avoid their first level of exhaustion.

You need to have either a druid or ranger in your party to even consider the goodberry option. Not every party has one of those.

You need to have either a cleric or paladin in your party to even consider the create food and water option. Not every party has one of those, they need to be at least 5th level to cast it, and unless you're entering into a situation where they can anticipate having to prepare the spell, they're not going to do so until after everyone has faced a Medium DC skill check to try and avoid their first level of exhaustion.

You need to have either a cleric, druid, or paladin in your party to even consider purify food and drink, which does not let you eat or drink pretty much anything, it lets you eat or drink food and drink without fear of being poisoned or being infected with a disease.

It's easy to pose solutions for things in a vacuum without having to account for the details.

 

[mrpopstar]

I feel that it can be made into something that works with other playstyles though, it's just that no one has bothered trying to salvage it. 5e certainly wouldn't try because it is trying to hard to make OSR fans love it without making any commitments.

I think the issue with making usable exploration rules is striking a balance between montaging and having the full experience of exploration. Some people prefer to use skill challenges to montage while others prefer to play out hacking through jungle vines with machetes for four hours.

Trying to come up with a structure for this where resource management and time crunches are optional. Perhaps random encounters are consequences rather than expectations? Most players I know see them as either punishments for daring to travel or free chances at treasure anyway.

So maybe a skill challenge structure where success results in cool locations / montage and failure results in random encounter.

I've been playing with the idea of 'location rewards' like healing springs, secret villages of crafters/allies, growing spots for potion-generating vegetation, etc.

Random encounters that feature fountains, old forgotten wells, unpolluted cisterns, etc., are not unwelcome!

 

[mrpopstar]

I think you're missing that I don't find that style fun. That's my issue with the exploration pillar: it's mainly oriented toward that play style and no other.

The exploration pillar is also geared towards other aspects of dungeons, wilderness, and settlements: traps, maps, treasure, objects, diseases, magic items, supplies, downtime, etc., etc.

Edit: I dunno what happened.​

 

[iserith]

I feel that it can be made into something that works with other playstyles though, it's just that no one has bothered trying to salvage it. 5e certainly wouldn't try because it is trying to hard to make OSR fans love it without making any commitments.

I think the issue with making usable exploration rules is striking a balance between montaging and having the full experience of exploration. Some people prefer to use skill challenges to montage while others prefer to play out hacking through jungle vines with machetes for four hours.

Trying to come up with a structure for this where resource management and time crunches are optional. Perhaps random encounters are consequences rather than expectations? Most players I know see them as either punishments for daring to travel or free chances at treasure anyway.

So maybe a skill challenge structure where success results in cool locations / montage and failure results in random encounter.

I've been playing with the idea of 'location rewards' like healing springs, secret villages of crafters/allies, growing spots for potion-generating vegetation, etc.

Frankly I find the OSR games to be boring (though they have better adventures than WotC once adapted). I play in a few and it's the lack of options (and slow progression) that really turn me off. My D&D 5e dungeon crawls are way, way better than OSR dungeon crawls in my view. And outside of variant encumbrance, I don't often add much in the way of variant or optional rules. Sometimes I do, like banning all spells with an NPC's name in it, but it's not all that necessary to have something approaching the classic experience without all the lack of depth (for my taste).

There are some easy tweaks to make for resource expenditure and exploration challenges without making it boring. Some examples:

• Every time you rest - short or long - you have to eat a ration and drink the contents of your water skin. No food, no water? No benefits from the rest. They'll go through resources quickly and feel the pressure to forage, hunt, or trade off some spell slots to deal with it.
• Random encounters are triggered whenever the PCs make a lot of noise - a consequence for failure on doing certain tasks.
• Wandering monsters never have treasure. Or they aren't worth XP. Or both.
• Differentiate between "traveling random encounters" and "static random encounters." The former is when the PCs are moving around and include exploration opportunities. The latter are all monsters, a third of which are lurkers (defined here as creatures that will try to surprise the PCs).
• You only find treasure through exploration - finding secret caches in hidden objects or places.
• Secret doors always lead to some beneficial place - a treasure room, a safe place to rest, or a shortcut around a dangerous trap.
• Abstract corridor travel and just focus on specific rooms in a dungeon like set pieces, but make it so the corridor travel has meaningful options to choose from - the Halls of Grognard is a quicker route, but there are more random encounters there, whereas the Howling Caverns of Argh takes longer but is somewhat safer.

 

[Vaalingrade]

• Every time you rest - short or long - you have to eat a ration and drink the contents of your water skin. No food, no water? No benefits from the rest. They'll go through resources quickly and feel the pressure to forage, hunt, or trade off some spell slots to deal with it.

Requires resource counting. Will skip

• Random encounters are triggered whenever the PCs make a lot of noise - a consequence for failure on doing certain tasks.

Jives with random encounters being a punishment. I wouldn't do it when they make a lot of noise because it would trigger constantly. Also, animals avoid noise and most 'monsters' are animals in silly costumes.

• Wandering monsters never have treasure. Or they aren't worth XP. Or both.

They are a punishment, sure, but the PCs will skill that thing and brew their innards into alchemy.

• Differentiate between "traveling random encounters" and "static random encounters." The former is when the PCs are moving around and include exploration opportunities. The latter are all monsters, a third of which are lurkers (defined here as creatures that will try to surprise the PCs).

Careful. Labeling monsters accurately is 'videogamey' and the D&D police will come for you.

• You only find treasure through exploration - finding secret caches in hidden objects or places.

You'd still get the stuff you loot from intelligent foes' bodies though, right?

• Secret doors always lead to some beneficial place - a treasure room, a safe place to rest, or a shortcut around a dangerous trap.

Secret doors having a point? What new spore of madness is this?

• Abstract corridor travel and just focus on specific rooms in a dungeon like set pieces, but make it so the corridor travel has meaningful options to choose from - the Halls of Grognard is a quicker route, but there are more random encounters there, whereas the Howling Caverns of Argh takes longer but is somewhat safer.

I rarely use long corridors anyway.

 

[iserith]

Requires resource counting. Will skip

Jives with random encounters being a punishment. I wouldn't do it when they make a lot of noise because it would trigger constantly. Also, animals avoid noise and most 'monsters' are animals in silly costumes.

They are a punishment, sure, but the PCs will skill that thing and brew their innards into alchemy.

Careful. Labeling monsters accurately is 'videogamey' and the D&D police will come for you.

You'd still get the stuff you loot from intelligent foes' bodies though, right?

Secret doors having a point? What new spore of madness is this?

I rarely use long corridors anyway.

Random encounters aren't punishments. They are opportunities. They create urgency, say something about the flavor of the setting, they put pressure on resources, they incentivize smart play, and they aren't always fights. They can take the emergent story in directions you didn't plan for.

 

[Nefermandias]

Requires resource counting. Will skip

Jives with random encounters being a punishment. I wouldn't do it when they make a lot of noise because it would trigger constantly. Also, animals avoid noise and most 'monsters' are animals in silly costumes.

They are a punishment, sure, but the PCs will skill that thing and brew their innards into alchemy.

Careful. Labeling monsters accurately is 'videogamey' and the D&D police will come for you.

You'd still get the stuff you loot from intelligent foes' bodies though, right?

Secret doors having a point? What new spore of madness is this?

I rarely use long corridors anyway.

You just don't like dungeon crawls, that's all.