D&D General Survivor Dungeon Masters -- discussion

[ReshiIRE]

Personally were I to DM I would only fudge for new players and early in the game.

...

And for Wild Magic Sorcerers in level 1 to 4 parties if homebrew isn't being used.

That Fireball from Wild Mage Surge WILL happen when everyone is grouped at level 1. I personally would like to ensure that doesn't happen.

 

[billd91]

The issue of fudging itself can tell one a lot about a DM's style and what they think their role is.

Honestly, I think the attitude toward it usually tells me more than whether they do it or not.

 

[Rabulias]

That Fireball from Wild Mage Surge WILL happen when everyone is grouped at level 1. I personally would like to ensure that doesn't happen.

You could houserule that it does something like [Average Party Level+2]d6. So at 1st level it's 3d6. At 3rd level it's 5d6. At 6th level it's the standard 8d6. Adjust the modifier to taste.

Oh, and I would rule it goes beyond the standard fireball damage. So at 10th level it's 12d6, and the party is starting to think about kicking the Wild Mage out of the party...

 

[Lyxen]

The issue of fudging itself can tell one a lot about a DM's style and what they think their role is.

I think over-generalisation is not helping here, first it depends on the amount of fudging, and second it depends on the reasons for fudging.

Moreover, on this particular case, it's also good not to be too judgemental. There are some groups who want at least some level of railroading. At one of our tables, one group was really lost in STK when they came to the pure sandbox part of the campaign. And even with the very experienced group that I'm running Avernus for, they were a bit lost at start when it came to the sandbox that I had turned the campaign into.

In the end, it's not black and white, and a good DM is the one who provides what his players are looking for (and if does not feel like it, then it's probably better not to DM for that table anyway).

As a DM, I'd rather be more just another player at the table. Rather than being some mastermind that has all of these secrets and plot threads and reveals laid out for the players to discover. My style has become much more improv-heavy and the game feels more emergent and more fun for it.

And again, mixing improvisation in it is not necessary. Good for you if doing this leads to the kind of game that your table enjoy, but I've gone in multiple directions in different campaigns even for groups composed more or less of the same people, and sometimes it's better one way and sometimes it's better another way, even within the structure of a given campaign by the way. Having a wide palette of styles is also helpful in renewing the game, which is probably what you have been doing, and it's often a good thing too, in and of itself.

 

[Bolares]

One place I really hate fudging is to avoid character death (unless it's something really stupid, like wild magic fireball at level 1). If I'm a player and I notice the DM fudged some rolls for my character not to die it will kind of kill the game for me. I will now that I'm "protected" and my actions don't really have consequences.

 

[Lyxen]

One place I really hate fudging is to avoid character death (unless it's something really stupid, like wild magic fireball at level 1). If I'm a player and I notice the DM fudged some rolls for my character not to die it will kind of kill the game for me. I will now that I'm "protected" and my actions don't really have consequences.

They can very well have consequences that you don't see, or come back later to bite you. In Amber DRPG, these is no fudging as there are no dices, but everything you do can have very severe consequences nonetheless.

 

[Bolares]

They can very well have consequences that you don't see, or come back later to bite you. In Amber DRPG, these is no fudging as there are no dices, but everything you do can have very severe consequences nonetheless.

sure, but if I see that the Dm is saving my character despite my actions and intentions as a player... the game isn't really about my choices is it?

 

[Shiroiken]

Very old school. I design the adventures without consideration for the party composition, nor "encounter design," but simply building a setting that would otherwise exist. After doing so, I'll tweaks some aspects for gamist reasons, such as creature locations and including specifics based on characters (such as ideals or bonds). Once the session begins, I'm completely neutral about the results, fudging neither for or against the players. If they outwit my designs, I congratulate them on their success; if they TPK, I shrug and ask what they want to do next. The world is as sandboxy as I can make it, but the adventure might have some constraints, mostly because using a VTT is tricky on the fly.

 

[Lyxen]

sure, but if I see that the Dm is saving my character despite my actions and intentions as a player... the game isn't really about my choices is it?

That's complicated and mostly about making expectations clear. It has happened to me exactly the same way, but honestly, a five minutes talk with the DM was all it took to explain that he was probably projecting his way of wanting his characters to survive when he was a player unto me when I was playing in his campaign. After that talk, it was OK for the rest of the campaign.

Talk to your DMs, even after session 0 there might be adjustments to be made and us DMs are not mind readers, most of us try to please you but some players would be really or even leave the game if their character died, so some of us are extra careful.

 

[overgeeked]

I think over-generalisation is not helping here, first it depends on the amount of fudging, and second it depends on the reasons for fudging.

I don't think it matters at all how much or what the circumstances are. Either the DM is willing to force their preferred outcome onto the game or they're not. Despite it being fairly common practice, I don't think that's the DM's job. The best DMs are neutral referees. You can't neutral if you're fudging the dice to push things for or against the PCs.

Moreover, on this particular case, it's also good not to be too judgemental. There are some groups who want at least some level of railroading.

I don't know about "want" but there are definitely some groups and players who are so used to being railroaded that when given actual, honest choices they're completely at a loss for what to do. They have been trained to look to the DM to see where they're supposed to go instead of making the choice themselves.