D&D General Survivor Dungeon Masters -- discussion

[Charlaquin]

As a DM, I'd rather be more just another player at the table. Rather than being some mastermind that has all of these secrets and plot threads and reveals laid out for the players to discover. My style has become much more improv-heavy and the game feels more emergent and more fun for it.

For me, the DM is another player at the table, but they’re playing an asymmetrical game, and the DM’s role in that game is different than the players’ role(s). It’s important to stress that the DM is a player, because their enjoyment of the game as well as their responsibility for the other players’ enjoyment should be treated as equal to that of the other players. However, it’s equally important to stress that their role as a player is different than the roles of the other players, because they have to approach the game very differently than the other players do.

 

[turnip_farmer]

Do any other DMs roll their dice in the open?

I switched to open rolling because I didn't enjoy it when I rolled a bunch of critical hits and massive damage behind the screen. I felt guilty. I don't think my players ever thought I was cheating (else why would they keep coming back?) but it felt awkward to announce some improbably high amount of damage when they couldn't see what was going on.

If I roll in the open, they see the big numbers coming down and know there's no shenanigans going on. I can see the look on their faces when the big scary monster rolls a critical hit, and I can enjoy killing them again.

 

[Charlaquin]

Because it's comfortable to be sitting behind one's screen where all your maps and details are hidden, and it's much more annoying to get up every time and throw them on the other side of the screen and recover them ?

This is why I specifically said “hiding their rolls” rather than “rolling behind the screen.” I roll behind the screen sometimes because it’s more ergonomical to do so, but I don’t make any effort to hide the dice. The screen is mostly a quick reference tool for me, not a barrier to the players’ sight lines, and if a player wants to crane their neck to see what I rolled, I won’t stop them. Moreover, if you play on VTTs with digital dice rollers, there is often an option to “whisper GM rolls” so only the GM can see them. I always suspect fudging when this feature is turned on.

And because your players trust you and don't suspect you of working against their fun ?

I should clarify that when I say “I suspect fudging” that doesn’t mean “I suspect the DM is working against the players’ fun.” On the contrary, I assume they are fudging in service to the players’ fun, or at least what they believe to be the players’ fun.

Frankly, ever since 3e, the level of distrust from the players towards their DM has skyrocketed, and can be seen all over the forums. KotDT made lots of fun about this, not without reason as almost everyone around the table is sort of shifty, in particular due to the severely competitive breed of game that they are playing.

I don’t know what KotDT is. But in my experience if players are distrusting DMs it’s usually because they’ve had a bad experience with a DM who broke their trust. Personally, I do trust my DMs, even when I believe they’re fudging rolls. I trust them to do what they think will create the most enjoyable gaming experience for everyone at the table, which for some DMs includes fudging rolls sometimes.

But in general, the players are not playing against the DM, who is just helping them have incredible adventures. Why that level of distrust ?

Again, it’s not distrust. I trust that the DM is helping the players have incredible adventures. But if they hide their dice rolls, I assume that, at least some of the time, they’re fudging the results in service of that goal. Which wouldn’t be my choice, but I trust they’re doing what they think is best.

 

[Gradine]

... Do none of y'all have situations where you need to roll something but don't want the players to know what it is and how you rolled?

 

[Lanefan]

I basically assume that if a DM is hiding their rolls, they’re fudging them at least some of the time. Maybe not much, maybe not often, but if the dice aren’t being rolled in the open, I’ll always be suspicious of those clutch crits when the party has the upper hand, or those narrow misses when we’re close to a TPK. Why else would you feel the need to hide the rolls, unless to reserve the option for yourself to fudge something “just in case”?

Key all-or-nothing rolls like that, which are fairly rare, I usually do roll where players can see them; it heightens the drama and makes it clear there ain't no fudging going on.

But run-of-the-mill rolls I make behind the screen, largely for sheer convenience but also sometimes to disguise real rolls from fake ones and in occasional instances to hide the size or number of dice I'm rolling. (e.g. was that 32-point Lightning Bolt a near-max from 6d6 or a poor roll on 12d6; the PCs don't and can't know this and thus neither should the players)

 

[Lanefan]

I don’t know what KotDT is.

Knights of the Dinner Table, a long-running comic series that started in Dragon magazine many (many!) years ago and then developed a life of its own.

Well worth checking out, if you've never seen it.

 

[Lanefan]

Another very common reason for hiding my rolls is when I'm rolling initiative etc. for monsters or foes the players/PCs don't yet know about.

If there's 5 monsters on the board but I just rolled 8 initiatives that's just too much of a giveaway...

 

[Maxperson]

Oh, and I would rule it goes beyond the standard fireball damage. So at 10th level it's 12d6, and the party is starting to think about kicking the Wild Mage out of the party...

Not a wild mage, but there was a group I played in during 3e where the party sorcerer kept hitting us with fireballs, because he didn't really care to figure out a spot that wouldn't hit us. After the third fireball that hit us, the rest of our PCs pulled his aside and told him that if it happened again the authorities would find his body in an alley. It stopped happening.

 

[turnip_farmer]

... Do none of y'all have situations where you need to roll something but don't want the players to know what it is and how you rolled?

Well yes. But your options aren't limited to 'hide all rolls' and 'hide no rolls'. You can choose when it's appropriate.

 

[Charlaquin]

But run-of-the-mill rolls I make behind the screen, largely for sheer convenience but also sometimes to disguise real rolls from fake ones and in occasional instances to hide the size or number of dice I'm rolling. (e.g. was that 32-point Lightning Bolt a near-max from 6d6 or a poor roll on 12d6; the PCs don't and can't know this and thus neither should the players)

Yikes, I’m not a fan of fake rolls at all, nor hiding the size and number of dice.

Why wouldn’t the players know whether lightning bolt does 6d6 or 12d6 damage? Isn’t that a spell they can learn, in which case shouldn’t they know what dice they need to roll if they cast it?