D&D General Critical Role: Overrated, Underrated, or Goldilocks?

[Bolares]

To the extent that someone like you keeps reiterating this point-
They look to me like a group of people playing D&D.

I'd say they ARE that. But not only that. At the same time they are a group of talented actos, putting out a 4 hour live show. The fact that they make the two things happen at the same time, and with no apparent hiccups between the two show the huge talent and experience they have.

 

[Oofta]

The adult films was an analogy, and a joke from another thread. The reason I didn't further go into it is because of forum rules- the Grandmother Rule.

Like all analogies, it is imperfect. I personally don't consider it offensive, in the sense that I don't find adult films offensive- to the extent that someone finds them inherently objectionable for moral or other reasons, then feel free to use a different example.

The sole (and joking) point was simple- that you are watching a performance. For an audience. By performers. That to assume that the things that you watch can (or even should in some cases) be applied to your home game is usually an error. This does not mean that the things you watch aren't real, or don't happen, but simply that they are performers.

To the extent that you keep reiterating this point-
They look to me like a group of people playing D&D.

Yes, you are right. That's because they are REALLY REALLY REALLY good at what they do! But your continued objections that they are just a bunch of people playing D&D doesn't do them any favors- in fact, it denigrates the preparation, talent, and years of work they have spent acquiring the skills to make it look easy and effortless.

::Sigh:: I'm obviously not making my point. I think they're very polished, charismatic and engaging. I don't deny any of that, nor do I think I could replicate that aspect of it even if I wanted to. I just don't think that makes it fundamentally different. They aren't pretending to play D&D, they are playing D&D and happen to be a very polished, charismatic and engaging group of people.

 

[Bolares]

they are playing D&D and happen to be a very polished, charismatic and engaging group of people.

and THAT'S what we've been saying the whole time. they are not pretending, we are not saying they are pretending... just for us, that is fundamentally different.

 

[Oofta]

and THAT'S what we've been saying the whole time. they are not pretending, we are not saying they are pretending... just for us, that is fundamentally different.

It's like saying that if I put a bunch of body kits on my Toyota Camry that I've changed the fundamental nature of the car. Well, to me, no you haven't. You're still driving a Toyota Camry that has a bunch of plastic tacked on.

So they aren't pretending, they're playing D&D, but somehow that means they're fundamentally different. I give.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I'd say they ARE that. But not only that. At the same time they are a group of talented actos, putting out a 4 hour live show. The fact that they make the two things happen at the same time, and with no apparent hiccups between the two show the huge talent and experience they have.

Exactly! There seems to be a sort of disconnect for some people.

In the OP I mentioned how the people who actually provide the greatest tribute to CR are probably those paranoid detractors who insist it has to be scripted, or heavily edited, or something else, because they can't fathom that anyone could actually do this. That, right there - that's an acknowledgement (albeit unwittingly) to how skilled they are.

What I truly fail to understand are the people who love the show and keep insisting, "Oh yeah, that's totally my game! Maybe Mercer is a little better at voices. But other than that?"

No. That's the whole point. It's not your home game. It's not just a difference in some funny voices. Do people understand how hard it is to be a professional performer? That the people who do this make a living performing? That they have a set of skills which is far beyond those of the vast majority of people that are playing- and that everyone at the table has those skills? And that the people who are playing the game are abundantly aware that they are not just playing, but they are performing for an audience (and, for that matter, getting paid for the performance).

It's truly bizarre to me. I don't think any of this is reasonably open to dispute, right? We know the skills and resumes of the people involved. We know the final product. We know that the people involved are paid (in some cases, have literally and deservedly made a thriving business out of this!). And we know that the people involved, who are performers, are aware of their audience.

What am I missing?

 

[Oofta]

So last post for a while (I know, I know, I'm starting to get as wordy as Snarf!)

I see some benefits to CR and some negatives.

Positives

• It shows that D&D can be more than just a bunch of people rolling dice grunting out numbers to each other in a basement.
• It's funny. There are times when I'm biking down the road with my one earbud in (I still like to hear) and I'll break out in laughter. The great thing is that this is not improv comedy sketch D&D like some shows; it's just people playing off each other. Reminds me of my home game and one of the things I used to have to explain why I liked D&D - I tend to have more laughs per hour playing D&D than most activities.
• The players occasionally go out of their way to share the spotlight. With a group like this there are attention hogs, they're all very charismatic. But there are times when it seems like they'll go out of their way to ensure that Ashley or Travis get pulled in to the conversation and story.
• It feels like people are really getting into their PCs and doing what their PCs would do. Whether that's when Fjord threw his sword into the lava which, according to one of the few after-shows I watched was just something he thought it PC would do in the moment or when Jester cast modify memory on the hag after giving her a cupcake.
• Matt is an amazing voice actor, and he really works at selling different NPCs. Several of his NPCs have basically the same voice/accent but the mannerisms differentiate them. For me I've found myself being okay acting out more when I DM. I've also seen this in some players, my nephew started watching and now does a "funny voice" for his gnome PC. Not as good as Sam's PC but it's adding to his enjoyment so it's all good.
• Matt is never judgmental and is always supportive, same with the rest of the group. If someone does something less-than-optimal they may kid a bit but are quick to tell people that there's a lot going on and that nobody is perfect.
• It's popular and entertaining and can give an idea of what D&D is which leads to my next point...

Negatives

• The Mercer effect. People shouldn't expect a professional voice actor as DM or an unlimited Dwarven Forge budget.
• Witty repartee. We aren't all going to be as quick with the quips and playing off others as they are. Then again, I look at Ashley who plays a quiet and reserved PC who almost needs to be pulled into the story (which they do) for her to have anything to say. Kind of reminds me of one of my players ... but it's easy to only see the obviously dramatic players and think "I can't do that".
• Expecting every game to have this style and depth of intra-personal interaction. First, it doesn't happen overnight if it ever does. I happen to do an RP heavy game, but I've also had a lot of games that were a lot of fun that had very little.

In any case ... that's all. I think there are positives and negatives to CR. I don't think it's solely responsible for he success of 5E, but I do think that overall it and other streams are good for the hobby.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

It's like saying that if I put a bunch of body kits on my Toyota Camry that I've changed the fundamental nature of the car. Well, to me, no you haven't. You're still driving a Toyota Camry that has a bunch of plastic tacked on.

So they aren't pretending, they're playing D&D, but somehow that means they're fundamentally different. I give.

1. I saw Lewis Hamilton win an F1 Championship. I drive a Toyota Camry at home. Therefore, I do the exact same thing as Lewis Hamilton, because the fundamental nature of the Camry and the F1 car is the same.

2. I saw John Mulaney perform standup. I made a dad joke to my partner. Therefore, I do the exact same thing as Mulaney, because fundamentally, a joke is a joke.


EDIT- the point being in that making that analogy, you are implicitly (or explicitly!) denigrating both talent and hard work.

 

[Bolares]

It's like saying that if I put a bunch of body kits on my Toyota Camry that I've changed the fundamental nature of the car.

We're going back to analogies then?

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

We're going back to analogies then?

Mama always said, "Life is like a box of analogies."

 

[Bolares]

The Mercer effect. People shouldn't expect a professional voice actor as DM or an unlimited Dwarven Forge budget.

Sooo... there is a difference?