D&D 5E Bards Should Be Half-Casters in 5.5e/6e

[FrogReaver]

The 5e bard works.

I just think that the Bard as a full caster with few unique spells and limited fantastical use of Bardic Inspiration is just leaving a ton of potential at the door. It feels to me like it was designed to function first and second then display a master of magical music third.

You keep saying this but you've not really explained what should be different about bardic inspiration?

 

[Yaarel]

I feel only one Bard subclass should specialize in a musical instrument. All the other Bard sublasses should be verbal only. (The option of somatic dance instead of the instrument or verbal is ok too.) If the instrumental Bard subclass is called Troubador, and swaps spellslots out (or spends spellslots like Paladin Smite) to heighten instrumental magical effects, that is fine with me. The fullcaster Bard can have a partial caster Troubador subclass.

This approach seems advantageous for players who want a partcaster Troubador. Actually using high level spells for instrumental Inspiration effects ensures the Troubador will be powerful at high levels.

 

[Gladius Legis]

Well this is patently false.

The 4e bard could be built to be a primary healer, controller, or striker, had Jack of all trades and a feat that boosted it, and had no limit on how many classes it could MC. With MC and at least one or two paragon paths, Bards could even grab some Defender, though it was their weakest secondary role*.

*kinda. They could be built for a very swordmage style tricky kiter defender with decent control style, but making them to traditional tanking was hard.

5e gives them skills all over the place, a very wide spell list, ability to Jack other classes spells, and subclasses that cover roles the base class isn’t good at.

Your definition of "jack of all trades" is clearly different from mine. The 4e and 5e Bards are versatile and can fill roles as needed, but they were also designed to be actually good at something, as opposed to the previous edition Bards who were designed to be mediocre at everything.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Your definition of "jack of all trades" is clearly different from mine. The 4e and 5e Bards are versatile and can fill roles as needed, but they were also designed to be actually good at something, as opposed to the previous edition Bards who were designed to be mediocre at everything.

So, wait, your definition of a "jack of all trades" means that the person who is being a jack of all trades doesn't get to actually be actually good at anything, but has to be relatively mediocre at everything? That's clearly not how things do or should work.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

What else do you expect Bardic Inspiration to even do other than the nice things it already does plus whatever additional stuff it can do based on subclass?

To be fair, if you took the 3.5 Inspire Courage, gave the bard a list of a few kinds of Inspiration they could give, and made it a bonus action, it would feel more Bardic than 5e Bardic Inspiration, and I really don't think it would be too powerful. Like, ditch magical secrets, give Jack of All Trades to the Ranger (or give most classes a set of skills they get half proficiency in if untrained, and a simple +1 if trained, and then never give any static bonuses to skills ever again in the entirety of the system. Just the class skill bonus, and proficiency/expertise.) give Bards 3.5 style inspire as a bonus action (inlcuding range and duration per 3.5), and keep inspiration dice as a separate resource the bard has to do a variety of things.

Your definition of "jack of all trades" is clearly different from mine. The 4e and 5e Bards are versatile and can fill roles as needed, but they were also designed to be actually good at something, as opposed to the previous edition Bards who were designed to be mediocre at everything.

Yeah, that simply is not what a jack of all trades is. You don't actually have to specialize in something to be good at it. A character who can fill nearly any role, is useful in some way in pretty much every kind of scene/challenge, is a jack of all trades. Being mediocre is not a requirement, by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Yaarel]

So, wait, your definition of a "jack of all trades" means that the person who is being a jack of all trades doesn't get to actually be actually good at anything, but has to be relatively mediocre at everything? That's clearly not how things do or should work.

That is how the saying goes.

"Jack (= apprentice) of all trades, master of none."

A dabbler whose not particularly great at anything.

This kind of incompetence seems to be built into the 3e Bard design.

 

[Parmandur]

So, wait, your definition of a "jack of all trades" means that the person who is being a jack of all trades doesn't get to actually be actually good at anything, but has to be relatively mediocre at everything? That's clearly not how things do or should work.

The full proverb is "Jack of All Trades, Master of None." The "Jack" in "Jack of All Trades" means a subpar, mediocre practitioner and dabbler of multiple skills on a low level, not an omnicompetent badass. It can be actively considered insulting and embarrassing.

 

[rgoodbb]

I would like to see the Bard be able to choose it's future at 3rd level

-It could go the origional route and choose a subclass and go on to be a Full-Caster

-Or it could go Half-Caster and do the nice 4e auras and Skald-y type things
It should have a specific feature to hold ancient lore/knowledge (not just expertise in history)

Having both options would be fine by me. I like options. They would be different enough to appeal I think.

BTW I agree they should be able to use an Arcane focus instead of a lute or a pair of tap-dancing shoes. This aids in opening up more player concepts.

TL,DR. Bards are cool. Have the best of both worlds.

 

[Yaarel]

The voice itself need to be the spellcasting focus.

No instrument, no wand, no material components bag.

Just the voice to focus magical intention.

 

[Minigiant]

You keep saying this but you've not really explained what should be different about bardic inspiration?

I explained part of it before

I would combine Bardic Inspiration into a resource that powers several class features.

One would be Bardic Inspiration as we know
Another would be Song Magic casting of wizard level sound based spells that lack concentration and are "uncounterable" by "spells".
Another would be Countersong, one of the few ways to counter Song Magic and allows the bard to counter and dispel thunder or sound based magic effects
Another would be Theme Song, which lets the bard tap into reality and play a character's theme song and give them fighter-level ability (action surge and second wind)
Another would be Dirge of Doom or something that lets you roll your die as necrotic damage a bunch of times rogue-style when you hit with advantage
The reverse would be the bard playing music to cast a cleric-level healing spell on a target
Another would be just like the Whisper Bard's Psychic Blades, added psychic damage to attacks.
Another would be a sort of magical Synesthesia Echolocation mixture where the bard plays music or makes a sound and it allows allies to see the sound to look behind walls and see in the dark.


A bard would get Bardic Inspiration, Song Magic, and Countersong automatically then choose which other bardic secrets they know.