D&D 5E In defense of my post....

[ourmaninboston]

What narrative is it? Did you (or someone on your team) write the narrative? If so, why didn't you make it about a near-naked man? Also, what does a near-naked person of any sex--and specifically, one that, from I can tell, is based on a character from real-world mythology--have to do with either Cthulhu?

Just so you know, my questions have nothing to do with either censorship or shame, but about appropriateness to the genre. From my perspective, you're trying to sell a hot naked woman and saying it's Lovecraftian because she's got tentacles providing some convenient coverage.


So how are you differentiating "a group of people" from "a culture of people"?

Do you still view safety tools as embarrassingly stupid?

Faolyn:

1.) I hired a writer and co-wrote the narrative with him. I didn't ask why the character he originally proposed wasn't a near-naked man. it's a good story. I have no objections to someone writing a mini-adventure that includes a near-naked man as an antagonist, should they so choose.

Why would a near naked person of either sex not have something to do with Cthulhu? Why is bringing human sexuality into an adventure threatening or somehow unacceptable? Why do you feel it's something I'm not allowed to bring into the conversation?

Saying I have been "trying to sell a hot naked woman" makes it sound somehow deceptive.

On the contrary, I have been quite openly giving away a sculpt of a hot near-naked woman. The original painter's work spoke to me, and it's beautiful. He agreed to our making a sculpt from it that ties in with the adventure. I'm not sure why you feel I need to apologize for that.

I won't.

2.) "I think culture is what makes a group evil." pretty clearly states my idea that there is a differentiation. The drow are canon, the equivalent of classical literature. According to that canon, they were created by an evil entity, and they, as a group, have built a culture of ritualistic sacrifice. That is evil. There are variations among them, obviously. Some drow are, by nature, good; most, by nurture, are not.

However, they are also a fictitious group of people. I feel like you're trying to draw me into some kind of real-world argument, so you can claim I'm marginalizing others, then you can lay down an "Ah-HAH!" and feel like you've scored a real zinger on me. I'm afraid that's a pretty steep hill for you to climb, as I'm an extremely vocal and active supporter of equal rights for everyone - every race, class, sexuality and age. I'm about as progressive as it's possible to be. I have donated, written articles, and incessantly stand up for marginalized people in my social media, and have actively campaigned on behalf of politicians who promote environmentalism and egalitarianism.

3.) "Safety tools" is a pretty broad generalization. I was speaking of mandatory surveys telling everyone at my table what they're not allowed to discuss. I think pre-emptively silencing people at my table is awkward, unnecessary, restrictive, actively HAMPERS social progress and is, frankly, unhealthy. My players have complete agency; they can and do speak up at any time they wish.

 

[ourmaninboston]

I have seen that on other products--Heroes of Baldur's Gate, for instance:

Heroes of Baldur's Gate (5e) - Dungeon Masters Guild | Dungeon Masters Guild

Heroes of Baldur's Gate (5e) - From James Ohlen, the lead designer of Baldur's Gate I & II... Sinister forces are moving against the city of Bald

www.dmsguild.com

While their using it isn't proof that it's okay, that was a fairly high-profile product, so the fact that WotC didn't make them change it seems to point that way.

I don't know - I've spoken to WOTC directly, and they have not indicated any problem with our content or presenations.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

Understood. Thank you for taking the time to express this.

I'm glad you've updated your OP! As someone who is working on their own first project for the DMsGuild, I didn't want to give any more than advice I would like to hear myself, if my own project stumbles despite my efforts.

 

[Parmandur]

I have seen that on other products--Heroes of Baldur's Gate, for instance:

Heroes of Baldur's Gate (5e) - Dungeon Masters Guild | Dungeon Masters Guild

Heroes of Baldur's Gate (5e) - From James Ohlen, the lead designer of Baldur's Gate I & II... Sinister forces are moving against the city of Bald

www.dmsguild.com

While their using it isn't proof that it's okay, that was a fairly high-profile product, so the fact that WotC didn't make them change it seems to point that way.

That's also a product put on the DMs Guild under the DMsGuild license...which specifically allows the use of D&D IP and trade dress.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

I don't know - I've spoken to WOTC directly, and they have not indicated any problem with our content or presenations.

Wizards of the Coast approved your use of a blatantly knock-off D&D logo? I would be less surprised to learn they have actual wizards on staff.

 

[ourmaninboston]

I'm glad you've updated your OP! As someone who is working on their own first project for the DMsGuild, I didn't want to give any more than advice I would like to hear myself, if my own project stumbles despite my efforts.

Thank you. I appreciate your input.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Yeah same here and even if it was the most glorious must-have materials I've ever seen you wouldn't get a penny from me now.

EDIT TO ADD:
Not only that, but your perspective on what D&D is and is not in these modern times is very askew of my perspective.
I won't support someone who makes comments like

D&D 5E - WotC's Jeremy Crawford on D&D Races Going Forward

On Twitter, Jeremy Crawford discussed the treatment of orcs, Vistani, drow and others in D&D, and how WotC plans to treat the idea of 'race' in D&D going forward. In recent products (Eberron and Wildemount), the mandatory evil alignment was dropped from orcs, as was the Intelligence penalty...

www.enworld.org

and

D&D 5E - WotC's Jeremy Crawford on D&D Races Going Forward

On Twitter, Jeremy Crawford discussed the treatment of orcs, Vistani, drow and others in D&D, and how WotC plans to treat the idea of 'race' in D&D going forward. In recent products (Eberron and Wildemount), the mandatory evil alignment was dropped from orcs, as was the Intelligence penalty...

www.enworld.org

You're either outdated or a troll, either way not worthy of my backing.

Your post was basically fine until you closed with the name calling. Stating your position without the parting shot would be FAR preferable, and more in accord with ENWorld’s preferred level of civility.

 

[Imaculata]

Faolyn:

Why would a near naked person of either sex not have something to do with Cthulhu? Why is bringing human sexuality into an adventure threatening or somehow unacceptable? Why do you feel it's something I'm not allowed to bring into the conversation?

Saying I have been "trying to sell a hot naked woman" makes it sound somehow deceptive.

On the contrary, I have been quite openly giving away a sculpt of a hot near-naked woman. The original painter's work spoke to me, and it's beautiful. He agreed to our making a sculpt from it that ties in with the adventure. I'm not sure why you feel I need to apologize for that.

Yeah, I honestly don't think there is anything wrong with a little sex appeal in your Kickstarter. Lovecraft's world is full of cheezy pulp horror. A bit of nudity is not out of place at all in that sub genre, and I think the sculpt is tastefully done.

Beware though that while it may attract a certain audience, it may also repel a good chunk of your audience. It is always a bit of a risk. It puts a label on your product in the eyes of many, that might not even be correct.

For example, female roleplayers may look at your Kickstarter, see the Lilith sculpt, and think: I guess I am not the target audience. I don't believe in censorship, but it is a risk. You may repel potential customers.

 

[Charlaquin]

That said, my stance in objecting to pre-emptive trigger surveys is one of reflexively hating attempts to limit expression and to censor content.

I believe it is a valid stance.

Safety tools are not censorship, even by the broadest possible use of the term. They also do not limit expression in any way; they are tools that one can use to get a sense of what the other people in one’s group are comfortable with, what they might be somewhat uncomfortable with but are willing to push their comfort zone for, and what their dealbreakers are. If something like that doesn’t seem useful for you and your group of players, you don’t have to use them, but other people who use them cause absolutely no harm to you whatsoever by doing so. Your concerns that such tools are censoring or limiting expression in any way are woefully misplaced.

 

[Imaculata]

Yes, what safety tools are is a means for players to ensure they will enjoy your content.

When I ran a Call of Cthulhu campaign, I cautioned my players to expect evil cults, dark rituals and violence, but not sexual violence. One of my players was very religious, and although he was fine with it, he might as well have not been fine with it. That is not something you want to run into mid-play. Safety tools avoid such an unpleasant situation.

Just imagine if your campaign contains some sort of dark sexual ritual, and a player relives a real life personal trauma because of it. No creator wants that, right? That doesn't mean you need to censor your campaign, but warn players of the content before they play it.

Heck, even the third edition Book of Vile Darkness had a content warning.