D&D General Divine Invasion: A Proposal for an Anti-Colonialist D&D Setting

[TheSword]

Why does that need an XP reward? If you think it needs an XP reward, then create a reward structure around things like that.

D&D wasn't about saving villages from floods, or throwing a ring into Mt Doom. D&D was about getting treasure. If you wanted to use the majority of D&D's rules to play games like that, you could, but you would have to overhaul the XP reward system to drive the sort of play your game is gonna be about.

These sorts of story-based XP rewards were hinted at as optional reward structures, but didn't really become explicitly codified until 3rd edition.

D&D was about getting treasure? That’s a new one to me and I’ve been playing for 30 years.

I thought it was about having experiences…

 

[grimslade]

D&D was about getting treasure? That’s a new one to me and I’ve been playing for 30 years.

I thought it was about having experiences…

Why does that need an XP reward? If you think it needs an XP reward, then create a reward structure around things like that.

D&D wasn't about saving villages from floods, or throwing a ring into Mt Doom. D&D was about getting treasure. If you wanted to use the majority of D&D's rules to play games like that, you could, but you would have to overhaul the XP reward system to drive the sort of play your game is gonna be about.

These sorts of story-based XP rewards were hinted at as optional reward structures, but didn't really become explicitly codified until 3rd edition.

There is a lot of badwrongfun posts in this thread. The OP posted an example of a campaign world where you play as the colonized instead of the colonizer. D&D is flexible to support lots of different styles of play. You want to earn some sort ENnie karma points for your type of play? Start another thread.

 

[TheSword]

There is a lot of badwrongfun posts in this thread. The OP posted an example of a campaign world where you play as the colonized instead of the colonizer. D&D is flexible to support lots of different styles of play. You want to earn some sort ENnie karma points for your type of play? Start another thread.

How is saying I thought D&D was about having experiences bad-wrong fun? I thought that was a truism considering they’re called
experience points? Or have I misread your post.

 

[grimslade]

How is saying I thought D&D was about having experiences bad-wrong fun? I thought that was a truism considering they’re called
experience points? Or have I misread your post.

I don't disagree with your point, just it has no relevance in this thread.

 

[TheSword]

I don't disagree with your point, just it has no relevance in this thread.

It’s was in response to another poster but, fair enough.

 

[pming]

I didn't suggest we shouldn't address colonialism, just that we shouldn't glorify it. My take on adventure design is to just present the situation, and the opinions of the NPCs involved at face value. There may be characters in the setting engaged in colonialism, genocide, slavery, murder, etc, but I don't artificially encourage the players' characters to go along with it or especially reward them for making value decisions (unless it's a campaign where we've agreed beforehand that certain value based decisions are rewarded).

Very close (if not exact) to the way I do it too.

Take B2 as an example, that ruleset rewards the players for coming home with treasure. All the drama about the beleaguered keep and the marauding humanoids is just the opinion of the NPCs they meet in the keep. There's no inherent mechanical reward for helping the Keep, or betraying the keep, or ignoring the keep and exploring the area for the hell of it, or opening a dialogue between the keep and the humanoids so they can live in harmony. Putting hands on gold is the only action that's rewarded (and perhaps glorified). Everything else you do on the way to that goal is your choice.

On the nosey, as the saying goes. Again, I'm in agreement with you.
The only thing I'd like to comment on is...
"...or opening a dialogue between the keep and the humanoids so they can live in harmony".
Great option and I have had a group of PC's actually do that (but it was using "Little Keep on the Borderlands", the Hackmaster remake, using the Hackmaster 4th Edition rules). It was with the Hobgoblins. They made a deal, but didn't read the 'fine print'. The hobgoblins got food, gold, and goods for not attacking anyone from the keep. Of course, anyone going TO the keep...fair game in their minds.

Point being, any "dialogue" with evil humanoids is, at best, a temporary reprieve. It'd be like making a deal with a serial-killer husband and wife duo....they may abide by the agreement, but only up to the point where they think they can get away with breaking it. Because, you know, EVIL.

That was sort of a sub-text to my initial comments about the "humans in funny suits" thing; these races are not human, and attempting to ascribe "normal human thoughts, emotions, etc" to them is fine and all, but some things are just going to be completely alien.

Edit: i meant to also say I don't think you should be glorifying murder and theft either. You get XP for acquiring treasure and defeating monsters that have HD. If you want to kill the kobolds and take their lair treasure, that's one way to do that. If you want to find a way to get those kobolds to willingly part with enough treasure for you to level up, you can do that too.

Too many people use "glorifying"...I used it to make a point (or tried to). My reason for using the word was to emphasize some people's disconnect/bias when talking about things they feel comfortable about, but find other things completely unacceptable. For example, nudity in the west here (Canada/America). In Europe, a woman's breasts or a mans penis are seen as, well, just nudity. Nothing really "bad" about it...also in Europe, they see guns as dangerous and scary tools that should have heavy restrictions if not outright illegal. But here in Canada/America... you can have a kids and teens "Gun Safety Camp" where kids between 9 and 17 learn all about guns and go out shooting at targets...but have the 27 year old woman change her shirt around the corner but 6 teens see her boobies? INSTANT calls for a veritable tar-and feathering of the woman for "corrupting the poor, innocent youth".

Point being, we "accept" murder and even torture in a game of D&D...but bring up "colonialism" and suddenly we need to "not make light of it and point out how bad it was so that the players all feel guilty about something they had nothing to do with". It's... weird, if you ask me.

Oh well...just as long as I get to roll some dice and play make-believe, I'm happy!

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[Michael Linke]

B2 was a Basic D&D Module. The Humanoids weren't evil. They were Chaotic.

 

[Michael Linke]

"these races are not human"

A lot of real world colonial situations involve eliminationist and dehumanizing rhetoric denying the humanity of the other side. So the twist to make all this ok and comfortable to tell stories about is to just imagine that the rhetoric were true?

 

[TheSword]

B2 was a Basic D&D Module. The Humanoids weren't evil. They were Chaotic.

The alters that the humanoids worship at are called “alters to evil and chaos” there is no doubt that this serves the same function. It’s explicitly identified. Even though 1e chaos was synonymous with evil.

 

[TheSword]

"these races are not human"

A lot of real world colonial situations involve eliminationist and dehumanizing rhetoric denying the humanity of the other side. So the twist to make all this ok and comfortable to tell stories about is to just imagine that the rhetoric were true?

Yes. Because what something is, counts for more than what it resembles, or reminds you of.

When you write fiction you get to decide things that in real life aren’t so simple to determine. In real life we can only guess what someone is, while in fiction we get to choose.

It’s how we get heroes of our imaginations in our TTRPGs, when we know in real life heroes have feet of clay.