D&D 5E Shadow Sorcerer + Warcaster + Polearm Master + Eye of Darkness = Is It insane?

[Charlaquin]

At some point, I think it would be interesting to discuss the preferences people have for different kinds of rules; for example, some people enjoy very crunchy rules for character creation, but don't enjoy getting that bogged down in rules during actual play.

That’s me!

Of course, the crunchier the character creation, usually the crunchier to overall play. Something to think about ...

True, but I do think it’s possible, due to the asymmetrical nature of the game, to have rules that are crunchier on the player-facing side than they are on the GM-facing side, and that’s something I’d hope to see more of moving forward.

 

[Charlaquin]

It takes an action to equip or unequip a shield. It's probably the most overlooked of all the more simple and straightforward rules in the PHB but it's in there. Very frustrating to anyone who imagines they just have a center-griped shield rather than a strapped to the forearm shield and who wants to be able to do the moment mid-combat where they throw their shield aside to double-hand their versatile weapon, but I think you've discovered why it is a rule.

My quick fix for that is to say center-gripped shields can be equipped as an object interaction but can be disarmed just like weapons, whereas shields secured by enarms can’t be disarmed but take an action to don or doff like armor.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

True, but I do think it’s possible, due to the asymmetrical nature of the game, to have rules that are crunchier on the player-facing side than they are on the GM-facing side, and that’s something I’d hope to see more of moving forward.

Interesting.

I have to admit, I'm drawing a blank envisioning this right now. But I'd be curious to see you elaborate on this at some point - a system that both provides a lot of player-facing crunch, but minimal GM rules.

 

[Nefermandias]

My quick fix for that is to say center-gripped shields can be equipped as an object interaction but can be disarmed just like weapons, whereas shields secured by enarms can’t be disarmed but take an action to don or doff like armor.

From time to time I catch myself considering homebrewing center grip shields, but no matter how I look at that, they are always going to be a stronger option compared to arm strapped ones.

 

[Charlaquin]

From time to time I catch myself considering homebrewing center grip shields, but no matter how I look at that, they are always going to be a stronger option compared to arm strapped ones.

Well, the ability to have the shield disarmed is potentially a pretty big drawback, if monsters actually take advantage of it. Otherwise, you could rule that blocking with a center grip shield uses your reaction, a la the Parry feature on several monsters.

 

[Charlaquin]

Interesting.

I have to admit, I'm drawing a blank envisioning this right now. But I'd be curious to see you elaborate on this at some point - a system that both provides a lot of player-facing crunch, but minimal GM rules.

Well, I mean, look at something like PF2. That has loads of crunch facing in both directions, but a lot of the GM-facing crunch is superfluous, and really only exists because of a commitment to player-GM symmetry. You don’t really need that complex chart for setting DCs or all the various typed modifiers. Just by removing level from proficiency bonuses you could easily port bounded accuracy into it from 5e, and make the dice formula d20 + ability mod + proficiency vs. DC instead of d20 + ability mod + proficiency + level + circumstantial bonus + equipment bonus - circumstantial penalty vs. DC. Monster stay blocks could be made far simpler. A lot of things outside of combat could be streamlined to be handled by the fundamental pattern of play instead of having their own codified actions to cover. But keep the fun ancestry, class, and general feats players get to choose from each level. Lots of room for the character building mini-game, without too many cumbersome general rules for the GM to have to manage.

 

[Hohige]

I'm curious, what's the maximum damage a melee character can effectively do, considering the hit chance.
level 6.

 

[ECMO3]

Melee
Bonus action: The Hound that attacks the enemy with advantage (pack tatics) and flanking and DC 13 for prone. 10average damage
Move 15 fts. ......Remember that It has advantage with pack tatics and flanking add +2 on attack roll.

The hound does not have advantage because it is in darkness and can't see. That cancels the advantage.

Also Flanking does not add +2. If you use the optional flanking rules it grants advantage which the hound can not get due to being blinded.

Remember that one disadvantage cancels all advantages. So if the hound is attacking a prone (advantage), flanked (advantage), pack tactics (advantage), while unseen (advantage) but the hound can't see the enemy himself (disadvantage) ...... That makes it a straight up roll without advantage or disadvantage.

Finally, even though he is in darkness the enemy can attack the hound without disadvantage and if he readies an action he can attack your horse without disadvantage. Even from the prone position, he can make these attacks without disadvantage as the horse and the hound can not see him.

..... the Hound's Oportunity attack that can prone him).

Bonus action: Quicken Empowered triple advantage Scorching Ray for average 34 damage

It is not possible to get advantage on the quickened scorching ray if they enemy is prone. Being prone imposes disadvantage on attacks from greater than 5 feet away and using a ranged attack from closer than 5 feet also causes disadvantage. This means no matter what you do, you can't get advantage on scorching ray if the enemy is prone.

If you use scorching ray from outside 5 feet the disadvantage for being prone cancels the advantage for being unseen.

If you use scorching ray from inside 5 feet, the disadvantage for using a ranged attack with an enemy within 5 feet cancels the advantage for prone and the advantage for being unseen.

Now if you cast fireball with the hound next to him, then yes he would have disadvantage on the save.

Invisibility Spell +7 Stealth check with Sorcerer's Magical Guidance (Better than Advantage) and Darkvision 120ft.
All enemies see 60ft on darkness, but the Shadow Sorcerer see 120ft. So, you have triple advantage against enemies that can't see you.
It's a reliable Stealth Character and really effective on natural darkness.

Level 8, get feat for Expertise on Stealth checks. It's an insane +12 Stealth Check, with Sorcerer's Magical Guidance, It's still more insane.

It's a scary character.

I don't know how you get to +12 stealth at level 8. With expertise and a 20 dexterity it is +11, that is the maximum you could have by level 8 and to do that with point buy you would have needed to start with a 17 or 18 Dexterity and take a dedxterity ASI at level 4.

A 11th-level Rogue is going to routinely have a +13 stealth, and he can't possibly roll lower than a 10 which means the minimum he can possibly roll is 23. If he rolls two natural 1s with disadvantage his stealth roll is still 23! That is without using any spell or sorcery points at all. The average stealth roll for that Rogue will be 26 and that is with no feat, no spell and no magical guidance boost. He can do that all day long. It can't be lower than 23, so even if you put the Rogue at disadvantage on the roll the average only drops to 24.

If your 11th level sorcerer has a 16 dexterity and you have expertise in stealth from a feat and are running invisibility and you burn sorcery points for magical guidance you will average 27, only 1 point better using a 2nd level spell slot and a sorcery point and the downside is a lot worse if you get poor rolls.

Finally the Horse you are riding on has a 0 stealth.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

I'm curious, what's the maximum damage a melee character can effectively do, considering the hit chance.
level 6.

In a single round, or over the course of a standard adventuring day?

 

[Hohige]

In a single round, or over the course of a standard adventuring day?

Standard aventuring day.