D&D 5E On fairies and flying

[HaroldTheHobbit]

As I pointed out earlier, most monsters have ranged attacks*, so it makes very little difference, apart from being very dangerous to be the only player who can fly, as you make yourself an obvious target for a hail of arrows.


*one might think the authors of the Monster Manual designed them taking flying PCs into account.

For me combat isn't the problem with flying level 1's. It's the lower tiers exploration parts that gets messed up. One of the fun things with lower tier play is that 3D environment can be made into challenges. With a flying PC, that is gone. So no flight at lvl 1 races in my games.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

For me combat isn't the problem with flying level 1's. It's the lower tiers exploration parts that gets messed up. One of the fun things with lower tier play is that 3D environment can be made into challenges. With a flying PC, that is gone. So no flight at lvl 1 races in my games.

There is very little that can't be solved with jump, misty step or a familiar, all of which are readily available at level one.

 

[Scott Christian]

Who are these DMs that do this such that you feel comfortable making a sweeping statement about "flight at low levels?

The same DMs that keep replying to my posts that keep saying they solve the problem by windy conditions, extra creatures, creature altering, opponents always having the means to reach 50' in the air, etc. They are the ones saying it. If they said: "For any of these encounters, such as scorpions in a desert, gelatinous cube in a swamp, treant in a forest, etc. I would just let the player be perfectly safe and reign down damage." I wouldn't make sweeping generalizations.
Of course, once a PC becomes the safe and damage toting adventurer, odds are many will follow in their footsteps. Which will solve the problem. It's when there is one and you target that one that it becomes a toxic game.

Those mostly live underground or are ambush predators.

And being stoned by a basilisk gaze is likely to be pretty fatal to a flying PC. And the ankheg has this: Acid Spray (Recharge 6). The ankheg spits acid in a line that is 30 feet long and 5 feet wide, provided that it has no creature grappled. Each creature in that line must make a DC 13 Dexterity saving throw, taking 10 (3d6)acid damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one. Flying PCs are not a problem. If they are higher than that, then you have a split party. Both the groundlings and the flyers are at greater risk. The flyer isn't going to be very popular if they plunk away with arrows whilst the earthbound party members are massacred. And the earthbound party members aren't going to be able to help when the flyer is attacked by a swarm of stirges (or didn't you read the Monster Manual up to S?).

First, I specifically stated they were 35' away. Second, I feel certain you have played in a huge cavern before, one where the ceiling might be higher than 35'. But I get it, you don't want there to be an issue, so there isn't. To me, it just details that you style your encounters differently. And there is certainly nothing wrong with that.
All I have asked is that you see it from a different table's perspective.

 

[Scott Christian]

For me combat isn't the problem with flying level 1's. It's the lower tiers exploration parts that gets messed up. One of the fun things with lower tier play is that 3D environment can be made into challenges. With a flying PC, that is gone. So no flight at lvl 1 races in my games.

I agree with this. Those who say there are other ways around it, that's true. Sometimes though, those other ways, require resources. So in an exploration heavy campaign at low levels, the DM might be designing to have the players choose between resources or possible effects/damage. With flying, a lot of that can be negated.
Again, certain campaigns can be affected by flying at a much greater rate than others.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

First, I specifically stated they were 35' away.

Which puts them out of range of help. They even have to yell if they just want to communicate with the rest of the party. There is a reason those abilities have a 30 ft. range.

Second, I feel certain you have played in a huge cavern before, one where the ceiling might be higher than 35'.

Sure, those goblins love huge caverns. They can perch on ledges and pick off foes with arrows. But ankhegs live in narrow burrows, and bulettes burrow under the surface where they are invulnerable to flyers, and basilisks have a movement speed of 20 ft., so you don't need to be able to fly to stay out of range.

All I have asked is that you see it from a different table's perspective.

I'm not the one coming out with the categoric "flying characters break the game" statements.

 

[HaroldTheHobbit]

There is very little that can't be solved with jump, misty step or a familiar, all of which are readily available at level one.

Yes, but then the characters spend resources to overcome a challenge, which is as it should be. Level 1 flight - besides being a huge cheese bait when choosing race - is not using resources, hence no such thing at my table.

If you find it fun to create challenges for an all-flying level 1 party, good for you

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Yes, but then the characters spend resources to overcome a challenge, which is as it should be.

That's a pretty inconsequential distinction, unless you also restrict resting.

 

[iserith]

The same DMs that keep replying to my posts that keep saying they solve the problem by windy conditions, extra creatures, creature altering, opponents always having the means to reach 50' in the air, etc. They are the ones saying it. If they said: "For any of these encounters, such as scorpions in a desert, gelatinous cube in a swamp, treant in a forest, etc. I would just let the player be perfectly safe and reign down damage." I wouldn't make sweeping generalizations.
Of course, once a PC becomes the safe and damage toting adventurer, odds are many will follow in their footsteps. Which will solve the problem. It's when there is one and you target that one that it becomes a toxic game.

Strong wind is a possibility regardless of PC fliers. See DMG page 109-110 for the weather tables.

The random encounter tables in XGtE contain both flying monsters and monsters with ranged attacks.

Dungeons have ceilings. Dungeons exist in Dungeons & Dragons.

These are normal things in a D&D setting, even if there are no flying PCs.

Maybe it's not all about countering a flying PC but rather just playing the game as it is and sometimes a flying PC is faced with a challenge that's easy and other times they're faced with a challenge that's not. Just like every other character in the party.

 

[Scott Christian]

I'm not the one coming out with the categoric "flying characters break the game" statements.

Nor am I. I have specifically made the claim:
In some low level campaigns, flying can create a tit-for-tat which is not good for the table. In some campaigns and some DM designs it t also decreases the DM's ability to provide natural encounters and terrain that would use resources or skill abilities.

I have gone on to say: After fifth level it doesn't matter.

I have further said: I don't understand why it's is so hard for someone to see all sides.

Why is it difficult for others to see that for some DMs in some campaigns, flying can break the game? In others, it doesn't do a thing?

 

[Scott Christian]

That's a pretty inconsequential distinction, unless you also restrict resting.

The entire game is based on the restriction of resting or always getting rests. Encounters are completely different if everyone is always at full hit points with all spells and abilities versus having three or four encounters in one day.