D&D General How early is too early for flight?

[Umbran]

I genuinely don't understand how you could come to that conclusion about Dark Sun. Well, I do, but it's not relevant.

Actually, it is kind of relevant, because we are talking about things that seem serious and goofy, which begs the question of why it seems that way.

If I said that Dark Sun goes to 11, lots of folks agree with me.
What folks forget is, "This one goes to 11," is a reference to a satire. Going to 11 isn't a serious goal.

Regardless, Dark Sun was incredibly popular and still is

Sure. No question. And it is awesome folks found a thing they love. I just find that it is, fundamentally, not actually serious.

because it does a fantastic job at capturing the essence of life being cheap in a harsh, broken world and those in power will do anything to achieve their goals. Including destroy the world itself.

Just standing outside too long can kill you in Athas and that's a refreshing change of pace away from modern D&D where it's almost impossible to truly die.

And this is where it goes to 11, and for me, becomes a Dagwood sandwich of grimdark. There comes a point (and that point is different for each person, of course) where that becomes kind of absurd, goes so far as to become cartoonish - and thus goofy.

 

[dave2008]

Depends on the ancestry's theme. Birds and bats cannot hover without extra training (feat), as they're beeg. My bee-ple and fairies can, because their little. Birds have to circle

What, in your mind, does size have to do with it. I would say physics, but then I would think you would need a strength/constitution requirement not training. Any intelligent winged race that is of age would have enough experience / training to hover by the time they become PCs, if they have the physical capability, IMO. Not saying your wrong, just curious about your justification.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Actually, it is kind of relevant, because we are talking about things that seem serious and goofy, which begs the question of why it seems that way.

If I said that Dark Sun goes to 11, lots of folks agree with me.
What folks forget is, "This one goes to 11," is a reference to a satire. Going to 11 isn't a serious goal.



Sure. No question. And it is awesome folks found a thing they love. I just find that it is, fundamentally, not actually serious.



And this is where it goes to 11, and for me, becomes a Dagwood sandwich of grimdark. There comes a point (and that point is different for each person, of course) where it becomes kind of absurd, goes so far as to become cartoonish - and thus goofy.

Can we all just agree that we can come to different conclusions about the same thing, and that's ok? What does it matter outside of personal preference?

 

[Umbran]

Can we all just agree that we can come to different conclusions about the same thing, and that's ok? What does it matter outside of personal preference?

Can we all agree that why we come to different conclusions can be an interesting discussion that can actually inform gaming choices?

No?

Then, can we all agree that if you aren't interested, you don't have to try to control others from having that discussion they find interesting?

The answer to that better be yes...

 

[Micah Sweet]

Can we all agree that why we come to different conclusions can be an interesting discussion that can actually inform gaming choices?

No?

Then, can we all agree that if you aren't interested, you don't have to try to control others from having that discussion they find interesting?

The answer to that better be yes...

Of course. I just felt that the disagreement here was likely to lead to bad feelings.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Flight being a problem is basically a meme at this point.

It's not so much of an issue as long as you're using terrain, giving enemies in the open ranged attacks and most importantly remembering D&D is a team sport. Yes, one person can fly over an obstacle or stay out of melee, but not everyone can and they characters should be working together and not wildly abandoning one another.

 

[MarkB]

7am's my limit, and then only if there's coffee.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

I think campaigns where many of the opponents are humanoids with ranged attacks flight is going to be less of a concern, especially outdoors in an open area. Flying around just might draw a lot of attacks to the one flying.

I don't think you should also put too much in hazards and obstacles that can be overcome by flying over them. While not as effective in such situations, many PCs do get climb speeds which can also allow them to circumvent such obstacles.

 

[Umbran]

What, in your mind, does size have to do with it. I would say physics, but then I would think you would need a strength/constitution requirement not training. Any intelligent winged race that is of age would have enough experience / training to hover by the time they become PCs, if they have the physical capability, IMO. Not saying your wrong, just curious about your justification.

Real answer, grounded in real-world biology: Due to limitations of aerodynamics and how muscles work, no living thing on Earth larger than a pigeon can really hover. They may sort of pause for a flap or two, but then either drop of have to move. Muscles large enough to do it would suffer oxygen transport issues, and the muscle tissue would become necrotic...

Magic worlds, however, don't have to stick by that. We get to simply choose what creatures can and can't hover.

 

[Horwath]

It isn't, for me. But I am very much in the minority here.

For aesthetic reasons, I also prefer not to have all the PCs be bird-men. Less fun to play for me and it distorts the setting.

yeah, Fly spell might be bumped to 5th level, maybe with starting 1hr duration and 10 targets, but 9th level seems good to gate it.

3rd level could be Swift flight:
Bonus action, 1 min duration, no Conc, walk speed as flight.