D&D 5E How do you hope WotC treats the upcoming classic settings?

[Micah Sweet]

Off-topic, but the really ironic thing about the "Let the past die, kill it if you have to," line is that folks quote it to say "Disney hates the longtime fans, this is a veiled reference to how they want to disregard old fans and destroy what we love about OG Star Wars." Which makes no sense at all because Kylo Ren is the villain in the movie... but I digress.

Villain or no, his opinion still seems to be presented as correct, and Rian Johnson has said that was his basic intent (take the franchise in a new direction).

 

[Urriak Uruk]

No matter how they do it, someone will be mad.

I think Ravenloft was a let down because of the page count and the trimmed down nature of it being a single hardback.

Most of these deserve a lot more than decades of lore, factions, NPCs, and monsters crammed into 256 pages.

To do them right, the settings should be at least three books, if not four. A box or slipcase with 3-4 books and a heap of accessories would be best.

The first book is the main setting info. History, lore, manor cities, regions, character stuff, new rules, etc. Really go in depth.

The second book is nothing but monsters. Creatures, beasts, factions, enemies, legendary creatures, and other NPCs. But done properly. With ecology, tactics, lore DCs, interesting actions and defenses, etc. Basically the best parts of how earlier editions handled monsters.

The third book should be an adventure path that takes the PCs from 0-20. Yes, zero. And moves them through the high points of the setting. Having played through the AP should give the player the chance to learn the high-level lore from the setting book and a lot of the details along the way.

The optional fourth book should be an anthology of shorter adventures and side quests that can be added to the main AP, dropped in to any campaign in the setting, or maybe used somewhere else. The focus should be on filling in the rest of the lore blanks rather than compatibility with or ability to port them into other settings.

Though another thought is to go Enemy Within and do a massive, sprawling, 5-6-part AP that covers it all. Though I don’t think they (or we) could handle how awesome that would be.

I'll be frank, I can't stand this model. D&D 5E books are already pretty expensive, about $40 per one. And your saying there should be 4 books per setting?

Hell no am I paying more than a $100 for a setting package. Even worse, this is locking out a big swathe of players who could be interested in Dark Sun, but don't want to purchase 2-3 books to make a setting work there.

The Ravenloft model is great. I know some Ravenloft fans don't like it, but it's been pretty well-received by reviewers and seems to have sold very well. I personally think it's a fantastic book, it gives you everything you need to make a Ravenloft game.

 

[Malmuria]

How do I hope they treat the old settings?

Let the past die. Kill it if you have to. It's the only way for the settings to become who they were meant to be.

The old settings will always be there. You can still use them! If they are going to re-visit them, take the good stuff, and go punk-rock on the rest. Give a new generation something to call their own. The only way to keep something alive is to re-invent it.

I'm a huge planescape fan. A reproduction of the original setting is actually not in the experimental spirit of the setting. So if they do planescape, I hope they make something that's new and imaginative and fits with 5e, not just a nod to the past.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

Villain or no, his opinion still seems to be presented as correct, and Rian Johnson has said that was his basic intent (take the franchise in a new direction).

"Taking into a new direction," and "Kill it if you have to" are not the same thing. His opinion is also not presented as correct, the protagonist (Rey) completely rejects it. Which she should, as her friends are getting killed right outside the window.

I shouldn't be debating Star Wars though, because no one ever changes their mind...

 

[Umbran]

The old settings will always be there. You can still use them!

In theory. In practice it can be hard to find the materials, and they usually take a goodly bit of conversion work to operate under another ruleset. Those are barriers to (re)entry.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

In response to the OP
Planescape: I am not a fan, do not really like anything about it, I am more hoping for Planejammer where I have enough planar material to make my own fun but ignore the Planescape themes.

I am kind of indifferent to Dark Sun. I could take it or leave it.

I really liked DragonLance. I think it is a great setting for a media franchise. Would be interested to see a new War of the Lance campaign but I would have to wait and see.

What I want is a good planar adventure and good planar travel locations, mcguffins and rules.

 

[pming]

Hiya!

I hope it’s Greyhawk and, in a perfect world, I’d like to see:
A world book, but updated to (a suggestion) 50 years in advance of the last timeline, which would allow “clearing” of things which don’t sit well to a more modern audience. This may upset some purists, but I still think it would work well.

See this? This is EXACTLY what I don't want.

I have zero faith that anyone working for or at WotC could do Greyhawk justice. They would toss in some "underlying conspiracy" that covers all of the Flannaes that would suddenly be the focus of, well, everything the would produce for GH, they'd suddenly make the Circle of Eight be something akin to a fantasy super-hero group, and then take whomever is the current "cool bad guy" is and they would suddenly but jumped up in power level to the point of absurdity (re: Iuz, Vecna, Iggwilv, Graz'zt, Tharizdun, etc... ok, Tharizdun was already 'super powerful', but he was a forgotten god that nobody worships or even really knows about). I shudder to think what they'd do with The Scarlet Brotherhood!

Advancing it 50 years into the future in order to "clear things that don't sit well to a more modern audience"? Yeah, because that approach is has been working SOOOOO well for Hollywood, why wouldn't it work for RPG'ers?

Here's an idea: Why not write a NEW setting specifically designed to "sit well with a more modern audience"? Why not do that? I'd be happy with that. That'd be cool.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[Dausuul]

Dark Sun is the one I'm mainly interested in. What I want from it:

• Timeline: Back to basics. The game should start either right before or right after Kalak's death. Dump the metaplot.
• Stuff that doesn't belong, ain't there. No gnomes, no tieflings. No gods, no paladins... and if I had my druthers, no clerics either*. No spells that circumvent environmental challenges (goodberry, create water, et cetera). Dark Sun can't be afraid to cut things that don't fit the theme.
• The world is a mystery. Nothing about Rajaat or Cleansing Wars or that the Dragon used to be human. The sorcerer-kings have ruled as long as anyone can remember, and they keep their past hidden. The Dragon is simply the Dragon, the ultimate defiler, origins unknown. The history of Athas is a closed book, and what lies within is up to the DM.
• Survival rules. Surviving the wilderness is a serious challenge in itself, and the danger of death from thirst, starvation, and exposure is ever-present. This means a robust system for survival and travel.
• The power of the Dark Side. Preservers get access to the resources of the Veiled Alliance, and the ability to use magic stealthily. Defilers get raw power. There should be major mechanical differences, not merely cosmetic.
• Everyone has access to psionics. Following the original, psionics is the "everyman" power, and all characters have the option to start as wild talents. This would probably mean all Dark Sun characters starting with a bonus feat.
• If there are published adventures, no save-the-world plots. The template for the classic D&D adventure is that a basically okay world is threatened by the machinations of a Big Bad. Athas is not a basically okay world, and the Big Bads have already won. Adventures can focus on simple survival, or on carving out a space of freedom in a world of tyranny; but "defeat evil to preserve the status quo" should not be on the list.

*I always felt that clerics in Dark Sun, even elemental clerics, struck a wrong note. A core premise of Dark Sun is that there is no higher power looking out for you. Pray all you want, nobody's going to answer. Clerics should have gone in the dustbin right alongside paladins, but I suspect the designers got cold feet about taking away the healbot.

 

[Mercurius]

Hiya!

See this? This is EXACTLY what I don't want.

I have zero faith that anyone working for or at WotC could do Greyhawk justice. They would toss in some "underlying conspiracy" that covers all of the Flannaes that would suddenly be the focus of, well, everything the would produce for GH, they'd suddenly make the Circle of Eight be something akin to a fantasy super-hero group, and then take whomever is the current "cool bad guy" is and they would suddenly but jumped up in power level to the point of absurdity (re: Iuz, Vecna, Iggwilv, Graz'zt, Tharizdun, etc... ok, Tharizdun was already 'super powerful', but he was a forgotten god that nobody worships or even really knows about). I shudder to think what they'd do with The Scarlet Brotherhood!

Advancing it 50 years into the future in order to "clear things that don't sit well to a more modern audience"? Yeah, because that approach is has been working SOOOOO well for Hollywood, why wouldn't it work for RPG'ers?

Here's an idea: Why not write a NEW setting specifically designed to "sit well with a more modern audience"? Why not do that? I'd be happy with that. That'd be cool.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

Reading this made me think: It really has to be done on a case by case basis. Re-envisioning Greyhawk for a modern audience just seems....wrong, and pointless, really. I mean, what's the point? If they want a classic fantasy setting but updated to the present, the Realms makes more sense. But Greyhawk? That's one setting that should be preserved in amber. I'm not talking about the rules, but the fluff.

 

[overgeeked]

Dark Sun is the one I'm mainly interested in. What I want from it:

• Timeline: Back to basics. The game should start either right before or right after Kalak's death. Dump the metaplot.
• Stuff that doesn't belong, ain't there. No gnomes, no tieflings. No gods, no paladins... and if I had my druthers, no clerics either*. No spells that circumvent environmental challenges (goodberry, create water, et cetera). Dark Sun can't be afraid to cut things that don't fit the theme.
• The world is a mystery. Nothing about Rajaat or Cleansing Wars or that the Dragon used to be human. The sorcerer-kings have ruled as long as anyone can remember, and they keep their past hidden. The Dragon is simply the Dragon, the ultimate defiler, origins unknown. The history of Athas is a closed book, and what lies within is up to the DM.
• Survival rules. Surviving the wilderness is a serious challenge in itself, and the danger of death from thirst, starvation, and exposure is ever-present. This means a robust system for survival and travel.
• The power of the Dark Side. Preservers get access to the resources of the Veiled Alliance, and the ability to use magic stealthily. Defilers get raw power. There should be major mechanical differences, not merely cosmetic.
• Everyone has access to psionics. Following the original, psionics is the "everyman" power, and all characters have the option to start as wild talents. This would probably mean all Dark Sun characters starting with a bonus feat.
• If there are published adventures, no save-the-world plots. The template for the classic D&D adventure is that a basically okay world is threatened by the machinations of a Big Bad. Athas is not a basically okay world, and the Big Bads have already won. Adventures can focus on simple survival, or on carving out a space of freedom in a world of tyranny; but "defeat evil to preserve the status quo" should not be on the list.

*I always felt that clerics in Dark Sun, even elemental clerics, struck a wrong note. A core premise of Dark Sun is that there is no higher power looking out for you. Pray all you want, nobody's going to answer. Clerics should have gone in the dustbin right alongside paladins, but I suspect the designers got cold feet about taking away the healbot.

Dark Sun was one of my favorites and while I agree with most of what you’re saying, I disagree about elemental clerics. I absolutely loved them. They’re perfect for the setting.