Impromptu Stream with Ed Greenwood, Tim Kask, & TSR CCO

[Umbran]

Or do you think the negative feelings they have about being swept up in all of this are invalid?

I just saw a thing that allows me to frame a response to this:

Their feelings are what they are. It is not for me to speak to their feelings, or call them invalid.

However, feelings are not actions, behaviors, or choices. Your feelings do not give whatever you do a free pass. Having feelings does not mean your choices are good, constructive ones, above criticism. Feelings are not automatically justification.

 

[Malmuria]

At one point Kask brought up Gygax's "nits make lice" comment and defended as an old saying whose meaning has changed over time. @Doug McCrae has pointed out the actual, and much more charged, history of that phrase. I wasn't aware that Tim Kask had an opinion about that, but now I am! Kask says he's ok with dnd being an evolving game, but it also seems to me that he takes the direction of its evolution as an attack on him personally and early dnd in general.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

At one point Kask brought up Gygax's "nits make lice" comment and defended as an old saying whose meaning has changed over time. @Doug McCrae has pointed out the actual, and much more charged, history of that phrase. I wasn't aware that Tim Kask had an opinion about that, but now I am! Kask says he's ok with dnd being an evolving game, but it also seems to me that he takes the direction of its evolution as an attack on him personally and early dnd in general.

Yeah, that's not great. I'm not sure what "alternate meaning" the phrase "nits make lice" could have. It's obviously horrific, racist, and calling for genocide. It's literally saying to kill children so that they won't grow up to be adults and have more children. Applying it to D&D races just makes them even more problematic.

 

[Marc_C]

At one point Kask brought up Gygax's "nits make lice" comment and defended as an old saying whose meaning has changed over time. @Doug McCrae has pointed out the actual, and much more charged, history of that phrase. I wasn't aware that Tim Kask had an opinion about that, but now I am! Kask says he's ok with dnd being an evolving game, but it also seems to me that he takes the direction of its evolution as an attack on him personally and early dnd in general.

It's the WoTC disclaimer added to all the pdfs of old D&D products that triggers that reaction. What they hold has their legacy is now considered 'expired' from today's point of view.

 

[Umbran]

It's the WoTC disclaimer added to all the pdfs of old D&D products that triggers that reaction. What they hold has their legacy is now considered 'expired' from today's point of view.

It seems every generation has to learn the hard way that they will, in time, fade into irrelevance.

 

[Marc_C]

It seems every generation has to learn the hard way that they will, in time, fade into irrelevance.

If someone bases the value of his life on work, he will will be disappointed. I worked very hard for 20 years for the same company making it grow. Last time I checked, a few weeks ago, only 2 people I knew still work there. No one else knows me. Such is life.

It's better to base the value of your life on your significant other, family, friends and post-work activities. There are two types of older people. Sour Grapes who don't want the world to change and Fresh Grapes who keep on being curious even in the winter of life.

 

[Doug McCrae]

At one point Kask brought up Gygax's "nits make lice" comment and defended as an old saying whose meaning has changed over time. @Doug McCrae has pointed out the actual, and much more charged, history of that phrase. I wasn't aware that Tim Kask had an opinion about that, but now I am! Kask says he's ok with dnd being an evolving game, but it also seems to me that he takes the direction of its evolution as an attack on him personally and early dnd in general.

Here's my old post about Gygax's use of the phrase and some of the historical background.

Gygax does seem to be saying "it is an observable fact", in our world, that if the children of those considered enemy peoples are permitted to live they will inevitably become enemies too. He uses that "observable fact" about our world to justify the killing of humanoid non-combatants in D&D world. Gygax mentions Colonel Chivington by name and refers to his usage, which is a strange thing to do if he's using it in a different sense.

 

[MGibster]

Gygax mentions Colonel Chivington by name and refers to his usage, which is a strange thing to do if he's using it in a different sense.

Wow. You dropped a truth bomb so powerful it ended the conversation!

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Wow. You dropped a truth bomb so powerful it ended the conversation!

I just checked back in, and ... sigh

I'd never heard the saying, and now I wish I had remained ignorant.

 

[Marc_C]

For those who don't know, like me, who Chivington was: "Chivington gained infamy[1] for leading a 700-man force of Colorado Territory militia during the massacre at Sand Creek in November 1864. An estimated 70–163 peaceful Cheyenne and Arapaho – about two-thirds of whom were women, children, and infants – were killed and mutilated by his troops. Chivington and his men took scalps and other body parts as battle trophies, including human fetuses and male and female genitalia."