D&D 5E Assaying rules for 5E E6 (Revised)

[clearstream]

[EDITED 27th November to streamline the rules!]

As part of design for my next campaign, I wanted to look at how E6 might look in 5E. The mode was designed for 3E by Ryan Stoughton inspired by an article proposing that Gandalf was level 5. The Alexandrian discusses it, and you can find more on StackExchange and Reddit. Generally, the problem to solve is how might we constrain characters to heroic fantasy, powerwise? No Wuxia. No superheroes! So scaling ended at 6th level, and thereafter a feat was gained per so-many-thousand XP (an amount based on the XP to get to 7th level). That worked well in 3rd, where feats are plentiful and granular.

I read a proposal for 5E E6 on StackExchange where players choose one feat, class-feature or sub-class-feature per so-many-thousand XP. One issue I see there is the great disparity in power of class and sub-class features. That creates balancing issues which can be partially solved using point costs, which then however lean into minimaxing: focusing and delivering on customisation. My priority is not customisation, but to deliver on heroes-not-super-heroes. Classes are one of the pillars of D&D game design, with important pay-offs for players, so I'd like to craft a system that works with them rather than ignoring or disassembling them.

I've listened to criticisms and thought about my objectives, to re-draft rules that end some scaling at 6th, but otherwise now use the standard class tables.

5E E6 ​

In this variant of 5th edition, some core elements associated with level advancement stop at 6th level. In summary, after 6th level:

1. Hit points stop increasing with level
2. Proficiency bonuses stop at +3 (but see below)
3. No further cantrip damage increases or extra attacks are gained
4. The highest spell level characters can ordinarily access is 3rd level (also see below)
5. It's recommended to use the feats option in customisation, and to cap ability score increases (via ASIs) to 18
6. It is suggested that level advancement is capped at 12th or 14th level (to stay within the power-range envisioned by E6)

These changes are explained in full below.

Hit Dice and Hit Point Maximum​

You gain hit dice and roll to increase your hit point maximum only up to 6th level. Your maximum number of hit dice is therefore six. Any bonuses to hit points count no more than six levels. For example, a 9th level character with a Constitution ability modifier of +2 gains 12 hit points, not 18.

Proficiency Bonus​

Your highest proficiency bonus is +3. However, features that count proficiency bonus for uses between rests still use the standard value.

Cantrip Damage and Extra Attacks​

Cantrip damage and extra attacks do not scale past 6th level. Thus, you gain no more than one extra cantrip damage die or weapon attack.

Spell Slots and "Enhanced Spell Slots"​

Classes and sub-classes with the spellcasting feature gain "enhanced spell slots" in place of the higher-spell-level slots they would ordinarily access beyond 6th level. For full-casters that applies to 4th-level-spell-slots and higher, for half-casters 3rd-level-spell-slots and higher, and for third-casters 2nd-level-spell-slots and higher. Casters can only prepare or know spells up to the level of their highest ordinary spell-slot.

To cast one of their spells, a character can expend an enhanced slot of twice the spell's level or higher. Enhanced spell slots count at their full level for counterspell, dispel magic and similar - both for countering and dispelling, and being countered or dispelled - otherwise counting as half their level. That is also true for non-casting purposes, such as Combat Wild Shape, Divine Smite, Font of Magic and Arcane Recovery: count enhanced spell slots as spell slots of half their level.

For example, a wizard can expend a 4th level enhanced slot to cast melf's acid arrow - a 2nd level spell - counting it cast at 4th level for counterspell , dispel magic and similar, and otherwise as 2nd level. Another wizard could expend a 6th level enhanced slot to cast counterspell , automatically countering the acid arrow .

Enhanced spell slots are regained at the same time as other spell slots.

Enhanced Spell Slots for Warlocks​

Warlock spell slots are capped at 3rd level, and then become enhanced spell slots that count as 4th (and later 5th) level for counterspell , dispel magic and similar - otherwise counting as 3rd level.

Ability Score Improvements​

It is recommended that the option is used to take feats instead of ability score increases, and that ability scores can't be increased above 18 this way (rather than 20). Higher scores might be gained through deeds, sacrifices and perilous research, hard-won magic items, or as boons from supernatural entities.

Advancement is Capped​

It is suggested that level advancement is capped at 12th or 14th level. Beyond that, further features might be gained in the same ways higher ability scores can be.

Calculating Encounter Thresholds ​

Use 6 + (levels above 6th ÷ 2) to determine what might be an appropriate challenge for a character. For example, an 8th level fighter in this variant counts as 7th level.

Class Level and Demi-level Advancement Tables (no longer needed)​

As it turned out, the simplifications above work with the standard class tables. I suggest using some of the TCoE class options to improve the play of specific classes. One other minor balancing detail, I suggest giving fighters a second fighting style and a minor buff such as two uses of indomitable, somewhere between 9th and 11th, to broaden their options and as an offset to losing their second extra-attack.

 

[Tom B1]

I'm thinking to look to the same idea, but possibly cap at L9 or L10. I get the point of the demi-levels and some of the other things you've called out, and some seem workable, but overall it doesn't reach the simplicity of the original E6 to me. Not saying I have the answer as I just started thinking about this today, but cleanliness and a good fit will be required for this to work.

 

[clearstream]

I'm thinking to look to the same idea, but possibly cap at L9 or L10. I get the point of the demi-levels and some of the other things you've called out, and some seem workable, but overall it doesn't reach the simplicity of the original E6 to me. Not saying I have the answer as I just started thinking about this today, but cleanliness and a good fit will be required for this to work.

I've created 'E6' versions of all classes following the principles above using the Fantasy Grounds VTT. In use, they're very simple - just like using normal classes. More work for me to set up and balance, but simpler to use than the original E6 because players just follow the (modified) class advancement tables.

 

[Tom B1]

I've created 'E6' versions of all classes following the principles above using the Fantasy Grounds VTT. In use, they're very simple - just like using normal classes. More work for me to set up and balance, but simpler to use than the original E6 because players just follow the (modified) class advancement tables.

When I was running Stargate SG-21 (a D20 based off Spycraft), I figured out all the curves used for the various levels so the characters could multi-class better. It was a bit of a calculational effort for a time, but once I was done, it was straightforward in use. I get the notion that the less elegant parts can be sorted by the DM ahead of time and baked into something easily used by the players.

One of my issues with E6 was that you grow fast-ish, then you just cap out and used feats which were the major downfall (over the long term) in 3.x series games. The difference between optimized feat trees and a more eclectic collection of feat choices was huge at higher levels. And building higher level NPCs using player rules meant the GM had to know all the different feat trees and the ways to get to certain abilities which made a high level NPC party hard to build (slow) and a bit overwhelming in play (slowed the game).

I though perhaps it would be more interesting way to do it would be to take some of the idea of E6 and stretch it over 10-12 levels.

Character Advancement

Experience Points	Revised Level	Original Level
0	0.5	1
300	1.0	2
900	1.5	3
2,700	2.0	4
6,500	2.5	5
14,000	3.0	6
23,000	3.5	7
34,000	4.0	8
48,000	4.5	9
64,000	5.0	10
85,000	5.5	11
100,000	6.0	12

I feel like doing this would let the characters do more adventures before capping out while still preserving the final capped level.

Obviously I'd have to figure out the best way to split a level's gains across two levels. But like your approach, the work gets done by the GM then the players just have a different progression chart.

I might want to tamper with the particular progression of XP to encourage a reasonably quick progression to 1.5 or 2.0 and then a stead progression between 2.0 to 4.0 or 4.5 and then make the last 3-4 levels the long play zone.

What are the benefits of this approach:
1. You stretch the length of the campaign without going too far into the heroic fantasy tier.
2. You still get to give players rewards (albeit more modestly) fairly regularly.

I'd also do what some folks have done and make particular higher level spells or abilities you want in the game to be allowed as Rituals or (in the case of spells at least) enabled by 'cooperative casting' (a way to let multiple casters share in a higher level cast).

I'm not certain it is 'better' than what you've suggested (could be worse in play I suppose) but it appeals to my sense of a more even progression and I'm not too font of handing out feats period, let along a whack of them at the highest level.

In my sense of splitting things up:

The half level would probably gain:
Half the HD
Some of the spells or spell points
Have to look at class power gains, prof bonus, new profficiencies, etc. and figure out how to split them out.
I've always wanted characters to gain more non-combat skills, so that might be something I increment as I've always liked more non-combat focus (exploration, social interaction, and other pillars that D&D has inherently - expansion/growth being an example).
Spells would stay in discrete levels but the spell progression might change a bit to make this work across a stretched number of levels.

 

[Mercurius]

My issue with E6 is that reduces the satisfaction of potentially leveling up 19 times to just 5 and, let's face it, for many/most, leveling up is a major element of fun in D&D.

I was just thinking about this while re-watching (again) the Lord of the Rings films. While the Fellowship (aside from the hobbits) are rather heroic and would be the equivalent of high level in Middle-earth, as Ryan Stoughton said, they probably max out around 5th level in D&D terms (maybe a tad higher in 5E...I'm thinking Gandalf might be a F5/W3, Aragorn a F4/R3, Legolas a F4/R2, Gimli and Boromir F5...or something like that).

This is illustrated in the fight with the cave troll, which is probably equivalent to a hill giant - a CR 5 creature. They dispatched it without significant damage, but it wasn't easy.

It isn't just LotR, either. Most epic fantasy--whether of film or literature--doesn't have the power range of D&D characters, which at higher levels are more like MCU/DEU characters. The battle in Batman v Superman vs Doomsday isn't that different from high level D&D characters facing a Tarrasque.

So for me, the question would be: how to keep lots of levels, but bring the power level down to more traditional fantasy levels? Not necessarily low fantasy or hyper-realistic Medieval fantasy, but at least what we see and read in most epic fantasy.

I also like the idea of the option for super-heroic characters, sort of like the various demi-gods of the Malazan world: Anomander Rake, Caladan Brood, Icarium, etc, all of whom would be 20th+ level in D&D.

So for me, the ideal D&D would have 20 levels that are similar to 5E's levels 1-10 or 12, and then extra "epic" levels that bring the game towards superheroism. I suppose it would be easier to cap at 10, with levels 11-15 being "epic" and 16-20 being "legendary," or some such. Maybe some special quest is needed to "unlock" those higher levels.

Another element is the nature of combat in D&D, particularly HP as an abstraction. A more traditional fantasy would involve taking a wound being far more significant. I've never loved the fact that in D&D you can go from, say, 100 HP down to 5, and still be operating at full steam. Or that when you have 100 HP and someone hits you with a battleaxe, you say "ouch, I guess," and then keep going.

So a more realistic approach--and one that drives with cinematic and literary fantasy--would probably involve separating AC into two components: Defense and Damage Reduction, with the former being a generally higher value that current AC, and the latter being specific to armor (natural or not) and magic. Then HP would be greatly reduced and not go up with level, except for maybe an increase in CON. Maybe something like Base Racial HP (6-12) + CON bonus + Class bonus X size modifier.

So you'd roll to hit Defense, which is generally higher than AC, and then if you score a hit, DR is subtracted. Makes a lot more sense and isn't that much more complicated. Character death wouldn't necessarily be more common, but getting hit would be more meaningful.

On the other hand, D&D is D&D and works just fine. But the above is the sort of thing I would have liked to see incorporated as a "modular option" the once-promised version of 5E.

 

[Charlaquin]

I think E6 was a great solution to the wonky power scaling of 3.X, but I’m not so sure the idea ports over well to 5e. But if you wanted to do something similar, I’m not sure 6th level is the right level to stop at. I would at least go to 8th so you’ve hit two ASI levels, but no higher than 10th, since 11th level is the start of the next tier.

As for what to gain on level up… I feel like “demi-levels” are too complex, and also wouldn’t feel like an E6 system. Just a powered-down version of regular level advancement. Instead, I would look at what scaling you want to remove. HP? Proficiency bonus? Class features? Damage per round? ASIs? Then just remove whatever you don’t want to scale from level up, and keep the rest.

 

[Dausuul]

I think the original E6 framework would still work fine in 5E--in some ways better. You go up to level 6 normally. Then, instead of gaining levels after that, you just get a +2 ASI every so often, which you can swap out for a feat as normal. With the feat list as it stands today, this gives you plenty of scope to keep expanding your character's repertoire.

 

[clearstream]

I think E6 was a great solution to the wonky power scaling of 3.X, but I’m not so sure the idea ports over well to 5e. But if you wanted to do something similar, I’m not sure 6th level is the right level to stop at. I would at least go to 8th so you’ve hit two ASI levels, but no higher than 10th, since 11th level is the start of the next tier.

As for what to gain on level up… I feel like “demi-levels” are too complex, and also wouldn’t feel like an E6 system. Just a powered-down version of regular level advancement. Instead, I would look at what scaling you want to remove. HP? Proficiency bonus? Class features? Damage per round? ASIs? Then just remove whatever you don’t want to scale from level up, and keep the rest.

In play demi-levels are super-simple, you just gain a level and get what is on the class progression table. Above level 6, each demi-level scales power less aggressively. A 6+5 character is about as powerful as a 9th normally, albeit more vulnerable because HP don't scale after 6th.

I'll past my class tables later. They are implemented in Fantasy grounds. Players get to enjoy 11 levels of character advancement, just attenuated in power above 6. Note that I removed the features from 11th that start tier 3, e.g. Extra Attack.

 

[clearstream]

I think the original E6 framework would still work fine in 5E--in some ways better. You go up to level 6 normally. Then, instead of gaining levels after that, you just get a +2 ASI every so often, which you can swap out for a feat as normal. With the feat list as it stands today, this gives you plenty of scope to keep expanding your character's repertoire.

I felt that there were plenty of great features in classes and subclasses above 6th, so wanted to offer more than fears and stat bumps.

5E has far fewer, and less granular feats than 3E, so coverage is less even, as a minor point. What you suggest might work: it was my starting point.

 

[clearstream]

@Tom B1 @Charlaquin As an example, here are my 'E6' advancement tables for barbarian and bard -

Both hit dice and proficiency bonus stop scaling beyond 6th level. 'Practice' replaces the 8th level ASI, and is a half-ASI (a 1 point bump to any ability score). I'm using some TCoE options - those that increase choice, and for a few classes those that improve balance. Ability scores are generated using a deck of twelve cards - two drawn for each ability, assigned in order drawn - with TCoE floating ASIs. In point-buy terms, the deck produces 18-20 point characters, with scores 7-15.

Overall, this yields powered-down characters who feel very mortal throughout their career. It's not at what I would call final balance yet. Maybe in six months time...