D&D 5E Charm, the evil spells

[ad_hoc]

How do people feel about 'the voice' in Dune?

It is essentially Dominate Person.

In the 2021 movie it is themed to be a dark and ominous power and yet the protagonist uses it without moral quandaries.

 

[Maxperson]

That's because there isn't proof that charm spells are evil. There isn't proof they're not either. You either accept the axiom that overriding someone's will with your own via magic is inherently evil or you don't.

I don't. It's a tool and the use is what determines good or evil. Shutting down someone's will to commit atrocities is not evil.

 

[Baron Opal II]

Dune is awash in gray morality. The Voice is certainly a suspect ability, but it's not an "I win", either. The Bene Geseret have to be circumspect about it. It doesn't last very long, and with how it is used in the books (I have not had time to see the new movie yet, curse it all) you can't really force someone to do something they absolutely wouldn't do. I would say it's more like a strong suggestion, given how I classify things.

I can see that it is highly abusable- certainly.

 

[billd91]

How do people feel about 'the voice' in Dune?

It is essentially Dominate Person.

In the 2021 movie it is themed to be a dark and ominous power and yet the protagonist uses it without moral quandaries.

Yeah, and the Bene Gesserit have also been manipulating noble houses and working their secret genetic engineering goal for generations. They’re not exactly upstanding examples of morality.

 

[ad_hoc]

Yeah, and the Bene Gesserit have also been manipulating noble houses and working their secret genetic engineering goal for generations. They’re not exactly upstanding examples of morality.

That is why the important part here is when the protagonist uses it.

It's easy to say that charms are evil when the evil person uses them.

The question here is whether they are evil when the PC uses them.

Dune 2021 is a great example of how the same power is portrayed differently morally.

 

[billd91]

That is why the important part here is when the protagonist uses it.

It's easy to say that charms are evil when the evil person uses them.

The question here is whether they are evil when the PC uses them.

Dune 2021 is a great example of how the same power is portrayed differently morally.

Knowing what I know about Dune - I'm not so sure it is being portrayed differently morally. Just... differently.

 

[ad_hoc]

Knowing what I know about Dune - I'm not so sure it is being portrayed differently morally. Just... differently.

Have you seen the movie? They might get to the morality of it at some point but not in Part 1.

 

[Micah Sweet]

How do people feel about 'the voice' in Dune?

It is essentially Dominate Person.

In the 2021 movie it is themed to be a dark and ominous power and yet the protagonist uses it without moral quandaries.

To be fair, I've never seen any character in the Dune movies or books as particularly good.

 

[Faolyn]

I did answer you. You asked again in a PM and I responded.

No, you didn't answer me, and you're the one who PM'd me. You claimed it was always, objectively evil but failed to produce any actual facts to back you up--you just insisted that your beliefs were objectively correct. But that's not what's important here.

Apples and oranges. I'm not talking about brainwashing or gaslighting. Those are different instances and just because you can find some bad instances, does not make all instances bad.

Magical charms are the same as brainwashing and gaslighting or even drugs. It's using magic to change people's minds, thoughts, beliefs, and desires.

 

[Raduin711]

no it is a bad act with a good ends... and in my mind the ends don't justify the means.

Would you feel the same way if the means were more conventionally violent? Does hitting someone who is about to murder a child justify hitting?

A blunt instrument instead of a fist?

A knife instead of a blunt instrument?

A gun instead of a knife?

Let's see, what's next... a flame thrower? A grenade? Where do the ends justify the means, and when do they not? Because all of these things are bad acts.