D&D General War! What is it Good For (in your campaigns)?

[Laurefindel]

Wars Don't Happen in Dungeons: a lot of time is spent in dungeons. Wars don't happen there.

Like @Shiroiken mentioned, many dungeons are/were military fortresses. And even if the war doesn't reach the dungeon, the dungeon can impact the war. That is the premise of many stories, either in order to acquire something (Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark) or to get rid of something (the Lord of the Ring), or lead an army through a dungeon (again like in LotR). D&D is ripe with "get X item from Y dungeon before Z enemy" scenario that can easily run in the context of a war.

So how have you used wars in your campaigns? Did the characters participate? Was it happening during adventures? What worked? What didn't?

I've used it in many of my games because if there is one thing that war is good for, it's to show the best and worse in people. That makes good stories.

 

[toucanbuzz]

So how have you used wars in your campaigns? Did the characters participate? Was it happening during adventures? What worked? What didn't?

Good timing. I'm running a 5E Kingmaker reboot in which players explore & conquer a frontier, then found a barony. Over time, they learn a learned troll has the same idea for the frontier: a monstrous kingdom where humankind aren't welcome. Eventually, this leads to war and mass combat rules. Lessons learned:

1. Mass combat rules should be used sparingly, be simple, and allow each character to control a unit of troops so one person isn't doing everything. This worked well. If I had it to do over again, after a milestone in combat (e.g. a friendly troop or enemy troop is lost), I'd have implemented a mini-mission, similar to what Red Hand of Doom did. I used Matt Colville's Strongholds and Followers and own his supplemental Warfare, which had more complicated rules than we needed at the time.
2. Mass combat allowed for a meaningful result to all the (in game) years of effort and mini-game of building up the barony. There's some pride in actually seeing bang for your buck and we had several roleplay encounters as the raw recruits were being built up to soldier status, or the volunteers showed up from their farms with pitchforks or their grandpappy's sword.
3. It provided an unusual distraction (mini-game) to the D&D experience. I do this from time to time to liven things up. Most recently, while the PCs were off invading the enemy castle after their troops soundly thumped the enemy, assassins attacked their council. PCs took control of NPCs they've known for many (game) years, including the town's beloved 3-legged dog.

Next, war will come into play as a civil war in the nation they're in. I've been planting this seed since Session 0. They've seen it coming as rumors of a marriage between the King-Regent and the eligible daughter of House Lebeda becomes reality, forcing the three opposed Dukes to take action now or face the King-Regent becoming king and legitimizing his choice of Duke to replace a lost line, giving him the strength he needs to wrest power from those Dukes. The PCs swore fealty to the King-Regent, accepted his soldiers and coin, but secretly have made a promise to faction that when the time comes, they will stand down (effectively making them rebels).

We'll see how that plays out, but I don't expect their barony of a couple thousand people to contribute meaningfully when we're talking armies of tens of thousands taking to the field. Instead, their presence may be political, or curbing a threat to everyone from the frontier. The War simply makes things more urgent.

If the wrong decisions are made, it may even lead to the Barony being stripped away. There's very few second chances in this "game of thrones."

 

[Eltab]

One LFR Battle Interactive involved what was supposed to be an army storming a Revived Netheril castle. IRL there were only 2 tables, so it turned into more of a 007 infiltration feel. Very good mission for PCs to take the lead and carry the day.

 

[gamerprinter]

Not that I needed a war theme for my current sci-fi setting I use as backdrop content in the Starfinder supplements and modules I publish, but I needed the facility for war. Since the setting I use is called Colonial Space, which consists of 36 independent colonies that have formed a confederation for self defense purposes. I created a Colonial Navy, and Colonial Marine Corps. I even published a supplement built around the marines. In the Starfinder rules, starships can shoot other starships, and they can shoot at the ground, but only target the hex of ground and cannot directly target sites or individuals in that hex - it becomes hazard damage, rather than attack damage for those within the targeted hex. I needed a way around that, that didn't negatively affect the people in those hexes (following the same rule). I developed third party rules giving starship shields and weapons to planetary fortifications, so they act like stationary starships using Starfinder starship combat rules. Because fortifications are stationary (a disadvantage in combat) all their weapons are turrets, so gain a benefit over attacking starships. I even extended these rules to apply to military vehicles - a specific kind of vehicle that starships can engage in combat with, and no other kinds of vehicles. All this allowed ground attacks, and attacks against ground fortifications to be a possibility - and can think of many adventures where using such tactics in a Starfinder game could apply. But my setting is currently not in a state of war, so the Marines get called in as back up for the Colonial Marshall's Office a lot, as well as search and rescue and other operations that aren't being handled by civilian operations.

 

[Lyxen]

We've used a lot of wars as background over the years, and I've always used the good old war machine from BECMI when necessary to manage units, because it's really fast, simple to use, totally Theater of the Mind and works with any scale of armies, from a few creatures to armies of millions.

Currently, in our Descent into Avernus campaign, the characters are in charge of an unlikely alliance of Avernus Warlords plus some troupes provided by Mephistopheles (the patron of the Warlock), and they just participated in a major battle where, after some diplomacy, they managed to coordinate attacks from legions of Zariel and Bel upon the town of Darkspine held by Graz'zt demon forces, ten thousands lemures and nupperibos against dretches and infernal war machines crushing everything. The PC forces were the smallest, but used mostly to create a breach into the fortified defenses of the town so that the PCs could escape while the demons were retreating towards lava tubes, but things got complicated when one of the members of their alliance betrayed them and hordes of ghouls and zombie ogres attacked their rear. Still, they managed to hold until the forces of Bel reached their position without too much losses, but things were a bit touch and go because the PCs also had planned to betray Bel's general to a few Dogaïs that the PC have recruited and who want to avenge the betrayal of their legion...

It can work very well using the right tools, making the PC feel in charge of the armies as well...

 

[Baldurs_Underdark]

[...]
Timing: wars can take years, and adventures and campaigns happen over days, weeks, and months. [...]

Plenty examples of wars that took only a few days or a few hours.

• In medieval times, the Norman invasion of England was over after 1 battle, although I guess that was a little more complicated than I suggest here. [Edit: It was 3 months between initial landings on the coast and crowning as the new king]
• In more recent times, the 6-day war was certainly shorter than most D&D campaigns.

What I guess I am saying is that not all wars need to be a war of attrition, which lasts a long time.

Wars form a possible background story: E.g. Tiamat cultists form an army, and they march on Waterdeep. It's interesting, because players can look at this from multiple angles: Why do they want to take Waterdeep? Can the army be sabotaged, delayed, infiltrated? Can Waterdeep's defenses be increased with some special items? Can allies be motivated to help? Lots of stuff to do for adventurers.

Personally, I would be very wary to let a group of adventurers act as soldiers/officers in an army, unless you make them the leaders of the army. They will NEVER listen to a general for more than 1 minute, and then immediately disobey a direct order. Only let PCs act as special forces that act independently from the army's hierarchy (and on their own motivation, not because they were ordered to do something).

 

[Lyxen]

Personally, I would be very wary to let a group of adventurers act as soldiers/officers in an army, unless you make them the leaders of the army. They will NEVER listen to a general for more than 1 minute, and then immediately disobey a direct order. Only let PCs act as special forces that act independently from the army's hierarchy (and on their own motivation, not because they were ordered to do something).

I think it depends on your players and on the situation. I agree that, with most groups, the preferred order would be:

1. Special Forces
2. Leaders of their own army
3. Part of the chain of command

That being said, with the right players, but also with the right motivation/campaign, the PCs can certainly be part of a large battle as officers if you leave them enough room to maneuver.

 

[Baldurs_Underdark]

[...] with the right players, but also with the right motivation/campaign, the PCs can certainly be part of a large battle as officers if you leave them enough room to maneuver.

Undeniably true. But not with the players I know.
The only time my players would listen to a general is after one of them successfully cast Dominate Person on the general and mad him issue orders that they'd want to follow... and even then they would bicker about it and paint flowers on the general's face, just to make a statement.

 

[pming]

Hiya!

So how have you used wars in your campaigns? Did the characters participate? Was it happening during adventures? What worked? What didn't?

I'm a "bit odd" in what I enjoy about fantasy settings, sci-fi settings, horror settings, super hero settings, you get the picture. What I constantly think about and find the most interesting is... the common folk. I mean, the PC's are not "normal" 99% of the time in an RPG. They don't have "normal" lives and don't have to worry or even thinking about "normal" stuff that regular folks do. I mean, an adventurer gets zapped by a trap and he, and NONE of his equipment, finds himself teleported into the center of an old circle of Standing Stones in a deep forest! Now, "normal" people would loose their kittens and probably be dead in a matter of hours. The adventurer? He lets out a series of "strongly worded disappointments" then gets to gathering.

It is this dichotomy of "heroic protagonists / normal folks" that I love. In particular, how the simple fact that there ARE "Heroic Protagonists/Antagonists" in the normal persons world affects their day to day lives.

So...war. That's what I think about; how does it affect the farmer, his wife, and three daughters? How is a war going to affect the town's mill? Cooper? Stonemason? What about guardsmen for merchants who travel near, or through, potentially contested land? What about those guards family? How will their success, or death, affect them? Now...extrapolate to entire populations. How will the general population react to the war and the battles going on "hundreds of kilometers away"...then "dozens of kilometers away"....then "at our small towns palisade!"?

That's what I tend to play up. The people in the streets...not the King, not the Lords and Ladies, not the Knight Champions, the High Priest and his Contingent of Kord Berzerkers, nor Aerrithall, Master of the Arcane Staff of Power. They are important, sure, but they can all die and the only thing that will change for the peasants is the name of the person/people who are ultimately in control of their lives.

Focus on the PEOPLE and how war will/would affect them...and how far they are willing to be pushed. There is a limit to when the common folks just rise up and say "Nope. No more. We're outta here" and either wheel out the guillotine or pack up and hoof it.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[Lyxen]

Undeniably true. But not with the players I know.
The only time my players would listen to a general is after one of them successfully cast Dominate Person on the general and mad him issue orders that they'd want to follow... and even then they would bicker about it and paint flowers on the general's face, just to make a statement.

You might want to consider having the right type of general, using a Pit Fiend that will literally dismember the first PC that disrespect him would do wonders. PCs are heroes of their story for sure, but there are more powerful agencies than them in any world...