D&D 5E Do PCs at your table have script immunity?

Do player characters have script immunity at your table?

  • Yes. PCs only die if the player agrees to it.

  • Yes (mostly). PCs won't die due to bad luck, but foolish actions will kill ya.

  • No (mostly). PCs can die, even if it is just bad luck, but they have chances to reverse it.

  • No. PCs can die for any reason. I am not there to hold players' hands.

  • Other (please explain).


Results are only viewable after voting.
He's not wrong though. DMs and players are not equals and it's a bit silly to pretend they are.
Well, he is and he isn't. This is a game. The DM has a greater role in the sense that he or she creates a game world. More time is invested. But that's part of the gig. At the end of the day, D&D is a bunch of folks getting together to have a good time. If you set an adversarial scene, I don't find that this adds anything to the fun. Is there something to your point that I'm missing?
 

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Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Easy there Colonel Kickass! We're not talking about a special forces operation where lives are on the line here; this is a game. A social occasion. People are giving up their free time to have a bit of fun. If fun for some means creating characters who fit critically into a story, and fun is lost if they die, then so be it. If it means that that they are potentially cannon fodder to RNGesus, and character death is something to suck up, that is also fine. Let's shy away from the One True Way style of gaming comments please...
The DM is a player too, and one with far more work on their plate. They shouldn't be out voted to run a game style they dont agree with.
 

I voted "Yes (mostly)" but honestly "No (mostly)" is also arguably true, and it depends on a lot of things.

The major issue which this doesn't really address is that it's pretty easy for the PCs to avoid dying in 5E if they know what they're doing. Experienced players therefore typically don't need "plot armour", so it's a moot point. You can have DMs claiming to be bloodthirsty/ruthless but if the actual fact is none of the PCs die, for years, or very few, I feel like it's a bit of a front. Not quite untrue but misleading.

Personally I think new players, who haven't mastered the art of cheesin' it to stay alive, are the ones who might actually benefit from a little plot armour, as they're also the most likely to be put off by a single death. I think it's very different if you've been playing for a year or more and your PC dies, and if it's just been weeks or months, or a few sessions or whatever. Creating a character can feel far more monumental to a new player.

On top of that, they're only dying in most cases because of a lack of knowledge of some fairly cheesy stuff, which isn't really reflecting poorly on them. If anything, it reflects poorly on 5E.
 


HammerMan

Legend
Has this like, literally ever happened? All the DM has to do to stop it is say "Yeah I don't want to run that, someone else can be DM!".
I want to hear about the game where the PCs bullied the DM to run a diffrent style..

the closest I ever came was I dislike Forgotten Realms as a setting. I have players who want to. They kept asking and I ran it then nobody liked it because it didn't follow the novels. (this was a long time ago fyi) but no one forced me I just tried to do my bestie a solid...didnt work out.
 

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Has this like, literally ever happened? All the DM has to do to stop it is say "Yeah I don't want to run that, someone else can be DM!".
That's my point. There was a suggestion that the DM has an equal vote, which implies that if the players want to outlaw character death, the DM has to go along with it because they've been outvoted (assuming they disagree with the majority).
 

The DM is a player too, and one with far more work on their plate. They shouldn't be out voted to run a game style they dont agree with.
For sure! And not at all what I said. This is a game, whose participants all have an equal voice. The DM for sure puts in more work. Far more work than the players do. I have spent 99% of my playing time as a DM... the amount of work that goes into this role is not unappreciated or unnoticed by me. That work does not entitle me to enter the arena with an attitude that I am due something. In fact, if I even think of this game as 'an arena' I've got the wrong mindset. You're playing to have a good time, to have fun. As a DM, you have fun creating the game world and designing the adventure. The players are there to enjoy the fruits of your imagination.

What I think you have to do at the outset is set everyone's expectations. Everyone, DM and players, are there to have a good time. Because it's a collaborative game, all have to have their expectations pointed in the same direction. If you get to the point in the game where disagreements about expected level of character survivability are happening, you may have skipped a necessary step before you sat down at the table.
 

Campbell

Relaxed Intensity
The DM is a player too, and one with far more work on their plate. They shouldn't be out voted to run a game style they dont agree with.

No one should have to play or run a game they do not want to. We all have the right to set whatever boundaries work for us. No one is special on this account though. At least that's how I see it. When I run a game my labor does not entitle me to anything. I do it because I like it. Not because I expect special privileges.
 

jgsugden

Legend
PCs die in my games. I do not protect them. I do not shield them. They die when the dice, or their actions, are the proximate cause. I do not fudge dice, change monster tactics, or otherwise gives them an out - although there are a lot of ways to find the resources to prevent the death.

That being said, my approach tends to give them less situations in which they are at higher risk. I use a lot of easy and moderate challenges where threat of death is not what is making the combat a challenge - it is the risk of the monsters achieving another goal. It might be stealing, kidnapping, arson, capturing a PC, finishing a ritual, raising an alarm, activiating something, etc... When I use a deadly or Deadly plus encounter, it stands out.

Level 1 and 2: This is the range of levels with the highest death tolls, even though PCs spend the least time here. They're so squishy that one bad roll, or one bad decision, can kill them. The situations in which they find themselves are often not horrific, but there are ways for them to get themselves killed, and sometimes the dice just decide they're going to die.

Level 3 and 4: PCs are not yet "heroes", but they're venturing into areas where nasty stuff exists. If they hear about the lair of an adult dragon and go hunt it out, they're going to suffer the consequences. As a DM, I want the PCs to feel like they're in a scary world at these levels - and that they need to be cautious. When describing locations, I often refer to doorways as exits, and describe the potential escape paths. This drops in their mind that they should be thinking this way. A well planned party that makes good decisions should likely be able to avoid deaths, but I have been unable to test that theory in 40 years of D&D as I have never met a well planned party that makes good decision.

Levels 5 to 10: PCs are now officially heroes. They can do those 3rd level spells, multi-attack, etc...and are generallysignificantly more powerful than 4th level. This is therange where the stories really start to unfold, and the PCs take starring roles. Still, they can die at any moment, and sometimes in ways in which Revivify is not an option, and recovering a body can be tough, if not impossible. Permadeath is rarer, but happens.

Levels 11 to 16: PCs are the Super Heroes. They're not just fighting off the ogres - they're taking on Huge Dragons, Beholders and Liches - threats that shape regions. They travel the planes. They have the resources, usually, to reverse almost any death. Permadeath only happens in very limited situations, or when there is a TPK ... which does happen. If I run a monster that is extremely intelligent and wise - and that monster is prepared for the PCs - I am not going to give them the monster on a silver platter. It will likely be prepared and defended to the best of its ability.

Levels 17 to 20: At these levels, even a TPK is not permadeath, generally. The PCs should have powerful allies that will have a vested interest in their recovery. That is why Levels 17 to 20 in my campaigns are generally 'on a clock' requiring the PCs to achieve something in a set amount of time. A TPK slows them down a lot. That may cost them when everything comes to a head.
 

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