D&D 5E 50th Anniversary and beyond

[Micah Sweet]

Being inclusive and being a good piece of media/game content are not sinonimous. Being inclusive is important, being good is also important. But you have good media that is inclusive (basically all of ms marvel and miles morales) and bad media that is inclusive. Being inclusive is the bar minimum, as I'm not really interested anymore in consuming non inclusive products, but that doesn't mean that every inclusive product will be automatically good. YMMV and all that.

I completely agree, but now a days it seems like expressing a negative opinion of an inclusive work can get you eaten alive, as if inclusivity is the most important thing and not liking something featuring it says very ugly things about you. It's honestly depressing.

 

[HammerMan]

I think it all depends on the context and intent. Some people will use tokenism as a puppet argument to keep complaining about inclusion, while others will argue in good faith. As with most things generalizing is not a great idea.

exactly.

I liked Captain Marvel (not going to put it in my top 10 super hero movies but it was good) but I have seen any and all criticism of it be labeled as trolling or anti inclusion...

I disliked the Star Wars prequals (far from the worst sci fi I have ever seen though) and laugh when people say it is because I just don't like 'female' jedi... its more because I don't like JJ Abrams. Even when I say I like Rey the character and concept, but the story didn't do her any favors I have been labeled sexisit in some circles.

I love WOnder woman. as a preteen I was picked on and bullied for having a wonder woman trapper keeper that was "for girls and XXXX" (profanity censored) I have loved the old linda carter series, 6-7 different runs of the comics, and the first movie (and her appearance in BvS and JL) however when I voiced issue with WW84, I again was told i just "hated wonder woman"

I would hate for criticisms to all be swept up in the 'but people who are X say that too"

 

[HammerMan]

I think the question is: does something get a pass on quality if its inclusive? I think most people would say no, but it is difficult sometimes to express a negative opinion of a creative work if that work strongly features inclusive content. It can be hard to sort out your own thoughts and feelings in that regard, let alone what other people think of you. I second-guess myself on that stuff all the time.

and there is also the "that wasn't meant for you" part as well. Just because something is cliche and forced (and lets be honest D&D settings are full of examples) doesn't mean it's bad...

 

[Bolares]

I completely agree, but now a days it seems like expressing a negative opinion of an inclusive work can get you eaten alive, as if inclusivity is the most important thing and not liking something featuring it says very ugly things about you. It's honestly depressing.

Sure, that happens sometimes, but I actually think it's culture self adjusting. Sometime ago you would be chastized if you asked for representation, or completelly ignored. This of course doesn't make it feel good to be "eaten alive" for expressing an opinion, but it is still better than not having inclusivity. I believe in the near future we will be able to have more deep and respectful conversations on this topic in general.

 

[Bolares]

and there is also the "that wasn't meant for you" part as well. Just because something is cliche and forced (and lets be honest D&D settings are full of examples) doesn't mean it's bad...

This has been happening a lot on D&D. People just can't stand products not being made for them. If they don't like 2 new products they swear WotC hates them and the edition is dead.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Sure, that happens sometimes, but I actually think it's culture self adjusting. Sometime ago you would be chastized if you asked for representation, or completelly ignored. This of course doesn't make it feel good to be "eaten alive" for expressing an opinion, but it is still better than not having inclusivity. I believe in the near future we will be able to have more deep and respectful conversations on this topic in general.

I really hope you're right. We've had several years of the other way though, and I dont see any indications that it's getting better. People just keep becoming more polarized. "Just suck it up, it'll get better eventually" is not an answer that relieves my depression.

 

[Bolares]

"Just suck it up, it'll get better eventually" is not an answer that relieves my depression.

Sorry, not trying to say suck it up. You are allowed to feel what you feel. I'm just trying to say that we can't really go back to how it was before (not saying you want that), so the only way for us to go is foward. it may take some time, but we all have to put in the work to advance as a society.

 

[Micah Sweet]

This has been happening a lot on D&D. People just can't stand products not being made for them. If they don't like 2 new products they swear WotC hates them and the edition is dead.

Well, fortunately there's a lot of content out there. WotC is far from the only game in town. People just need to think critically and not put the IP holder up on a pedestal.

 

[Bolares]

Well, fortunately there's a lot of content out there. WotC is far from the only game in town. People just need to think critically and not put the IP holder up on a pedestal.

Yeah, and I bet even WotC will make more "traditional" products (I'd argue Fizban's is that). Them broadening their consumer base is no indication they are abandoning the consumers they already have.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Sorry, not trying to say suck it up. You are allowed to feel what you feel. I'm just trying to say that we can't really go back to how it was before (not saying you want that), so the only way for us to go is foward. it may take some time, but we all have to put in the work to advance as a society.

True. Really hope we advance past the part where we are soon.