D&D 5E Yes to factionalism. No to racism.

[Ruin Explorer]

Hmm. Not really
If there are orc bandits then my pc may know to fight them using X, Y and Z.
Human bandits I may know to fight using X, A and B.

That doesn't seem accurate.

In both cases they're humanoids, vulnerable to the same kinds of magic, with the same kinds of strengths and weaknesses. Orcs might hit a little harder in melee and bit a little harder to kill, but it's a small percentage gap.

I don't see how entirely 2/3rds of your tactics would differ from one to the other. In either case, the positioning and armament of the bandits will be vastly more important to your choice of tactics than their race.

Elven Bandits might demand a tactic change because they're invulnerable to Sleep.

 

[Bolares]

I must be a terrible person...



I don't. The part about the size is absurd and totally stupid, for example.



Not only the lore, but the characters as well, PCs and NPCs both. Once more, this is a fantasy world, and species/races are NOT equal. Will you insist that a Goblin is the same as Mind Flayer ? That he needs to have equal stats because otherwise it's unfair and racist ? Yes, you do, and that is indeed the way to utter blandness in what I can not even, in all honesty, call a fantasy world.

One of the other RPGs I love is Runequest, where you can play incredibly varied and rich races, where their race/species divine origin, their runic/magic connections, and their history both before time began and since then has had a great influence on their culture, which are varied, rich, vibrant. This is way more interesting to me than "people should only be allowed to play things that look like human in various funny hats because of their different cultures/factions because otherwise some people will be offended".

In Runequest, some races are way stronger, way more intelligent, way larger and/or robust, and others are weaker, more stupid and/or smaller. But these characteristics have shaped their culture and their outlook in very specific ways, and make them way more interesting, in particular when put in play. The Agimori are taller, stronger, resistant to fire, and extremely powerful individuals, and the Morokanth (who are weaker "tapir-men") eat "herd men", a trait that seems disgusting but that has its origin in the god time when they were more clever than some and earned that right, and this is rightly respected and feared even by the Agimori. These are not only humans in funny hats, there are cosmological, mythological, mythical, historical reasons for the differences in their species/races, which in turn have led to both similarities (they are both nomadic tribes of the vast plains of Prax) and irreconciliable differences in their cultures, leading to sometimes alliances and sometimes feuds. So when the PCs are asked to arbitrate as to whether the Morokanth should be allowed to eat two thieving Agimori, they have to take all that into account, as well as the current political and influence implications of their choices. This is what I want for my fantasy species/races, way more interesting than if it was a 7 foot tall halfling and a 3 feet tall goliath arguing about political correctness.

As you seem to have no problem calling people who disagree with you partisans of racism, I have no problem telling you that even moderately mature gamers know how to make a difference between the fantasy species and races that they play and their every day life, and that it is way healthier not to mix fantasy and reality. I have been playing D&D for probably longer than you have been alive with all ethnicities and mixes, on most continents, with all genders and ages, using strong racial/species stereotypes for our characters. And I find your continuous campaigning and slandering of proponents of alternate, richer and more mature views extremely insulting. Please take your crusade elsewhere, or tone down your vocabulary and accusations. Or even better, realise that a fantasy world can be way richer and more interesting because of all the differences in races/species as well as culture.

You could’ve you know… just ignored the thread. I don’t get why people go in threads where they really don’t want to be constructive or respctful in.

 

[Lyxen]

It's incredibly simple, the discussion is race-based (racism) vs faction-based (factionalism).

And I have answered this as well, in detail, and with an example, but you also choose to jump down my throat instead of answering it. How rude.

HOWEVER, you also jumped down my throat about potentially unwarranted accusations, and I have shown you ample proof that the choice of word is not innocent, and from that very poster, contrary to what you mentioned at start. If I were you, I would drop that line, not only did I show to you that it's a common trend of the OP, and that this very word is bandied much too frequently and for very dubious reasons as well. It is simply not acceptable.

 

[Lyxen]

You could’ve you know… just ignored the thread. I don’t get why people go in threads where they really don’t want to be constructive or respctful in.

So it's OK to insult people if you expect them to ignore you ? With a provocative title like this ?

On top of which, I also contributed to the post, as I happen to disagree that factionalism is in any way as rich and interesting as fantasy races/species possibilities. But you know, you could have just ignored my comment about the insult and answered this instead...

 

[Bolares]

HOWEVER, you also jumped down my throat about potentially unwarranted accusations,

Don’t you see the irony that this is exactly what you’ve done from your first post here? Not trying to start a fight or anything, but c’mon, this is not the first time this happens. No one is calling anyone racist here, that’s not what’s happening. There are people in the conversation that disagree with WotC’s changes, and they are… you know… discussing the topic of the thread. Please don’t thread crap an interesting conversation. Pretty please

 

[Ruin Explorer]

And I have answered this as well, in detail, and with an example, but you also choose to jump down my throat instead of answering it. How rude.

HOWEVER, you also jumped down my throat about potentially unwarranted accusations, and I have shown you ample proof that the choice of word is not innocent, and from that very poster, contrary to what you mentioned at start. If I were you, I would drop that line, not only did I show to you that it's a common trend of the OP, and that this very word is bandied much too frequently and for very dubious reasons as well. It is simply not acceptable.

You haven't "shown" (i.e. demonstrated proof) of anything except that you don't understand was "factionalism vs racism" means, sorry.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

I'll just say it here.

That's an excuse.

That's a direct quote from the PHB. Lay the blame at WotC.

They needed the fantasy human diverse because, out of game, calling them humans would make players identify them with real-life humans and having monothematic cultures would sound odd for real-life humans. They didn't emphasize the "fantasy" part in fantasy humans. It's easier to imagine people with a mindset like the player's, even with fantasy human being radically different from real life humans on many other characteristics. While I can see extending the diversity part to all fantasy races, what would be the point of having fantasy humans in the first place? Their only defining characteristics removed, and all fantasy races thinking like humans do, there is very little point to keep them.

They could do planet-of-hats other races because they are not humans. Their mindset is alien to us, and their worldviews can and should be widely different.

Humans being adaptables doesn't mean all elves line up into 3 groups politically and culturally: high wood and dark.

Why not? Note that they don't say they align politically, only culturally. There is no mention of the number of high elves kingdoms (not anymore than there is a mention of the number of kingdom sharing a human ethnicity).

Unless mind controlled by gods, even inhuman elves, dwarves, halflings , and orcs would split into more than 3 factions.

Why wouldn't they be mind-influenced by their creator god? I have no trouble imagining fantasy races designed by their creator god to fulfill a specific goal not given the ability to differ wildly in worldviews from one another. Before Illuvatar breathed life into them, Aule's dwarves couldn't even animate when he wasn't thinking about them. I can imagine a world where the dwarf creator god got bored after creating three kind of dwarves and so they all tend toward one of the three archetypes even if there are dozens of dwarven nations.

 

[Minigiant]

That doesn't seem accurate.

In both cases they're humanoids, vulnerable to the same kinds of magic, with the same kinds of strengths and weaknesses. Orcs might hit a little harder in melee and bit a little harder to kill, but it's a small percentage gap.

I don't see how entirely 2/3rds of your tactics would differ from one to the other. In either case, the positioning and armament of the bandits will be vastly more important to your choice of tactics than their race.

Elven Bandits might demand a tactic change because they're invulnerable to Sleep.

The most important description of humaniod bandits is their world weapons. Then their armor. Then what is glowing on them.

Race is WAAAY down the list. Especially since it is usually just a +1 shifted around in most editions.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

The most important description of humaniod bandits is their world weapons. Then their armor. Then what is glowing on them.

Race is WAAAY down the list. Especially since it is usually just a +1 shifted around in most editions.

Yeah, though I think positioning is very important too.

There will be situations where the race is of high importance. Orcs aren't one of those, because their specific abilities just make them slightly more dangerous in melee.

Dragonborn would matter because potentially a bunch of them could use their breath weapons, and if the party was stacked, that could easily cause a problem.

Satyrs or Yuan-Ti would matter because they have generalized magic-resist so it might be a bad idea to use spells on them as a primary tactic.

Some other races might have specific resistances, but the impact is likely to be low in most cases.

 

[Minigiant]

That's a direct quote from the PHB. Lay the blame at WotC.

I do.

And TSR before them.

They needed the fantasy human diverse because, out of game, calling them humans would make players identify them with real-life humans and having monothematic cultures would sound odd for real-life humans. They didn't emphasize the "fantasy" part in fantasy humans. It's easier to imagine people with a mindset like the player's, even with fantasy human being radically different from real life humans on many other characteristics.



They could do planet-of-hats other races because they are not humans. Their mindset is alien to us, and their worldviews can be widely different.

Excuses.



You can have other racial worldwide and more that 3 groups.



It's just easier and safer to tradition to do monocultures for nonhumans.

Why not? Note that they don't say they align politically, only culturally. There is no mention of the number of high elves kingdoms (not anymore than there is a mention of the number of kingdom sharing a human ethnicity).

There are dozens of cultures of humans on each continent of real life Earth and fantasy settings.



There is no reason nonhumans can't share those cultures nor have as many.

Why wouldn't they be mind-influenced by their creator god? I have no trouble imagining fantasy races designed to fulfill a specific goal and not given the ability to differ wildly in worldviews from one another. Before Illuvatar breathed life into them, Aule's dwarves couldn't even animate when he wasn't thinking about them. Maybe he got bored after creating three kind of dwarves and so they all tend toward one of the three archetypes even if there are dozens of dwarven nations.

If gods are mind controlling mortals then there should be a subrace for each possible god that can mind control a race for every race.



And every god who mind controls multiple races would be creating... a faction.