D&D 5E Roleplaying in D&D 5E: It’s How You Play the Game

[clearstream]

I mean, just adjust the numbers from 5% to 40% and the same arguments are applicable.

The intuitions pumped are different. 8 and 10 say, no difference in spells memorised. 8 and 20 then, a difference of 5 spells. It is easy to draw from that a less effective short term and working memory. And less attentive, flexible, and quick.

Judging a 5% difference between two people is different from judging a 40% difference. In height 6 foot versus 3 foot 8 inches or so: easily visible.

Thinking of the d20 range, the floor and ceiling are in markedly different places. In Tier 2 with Expertise 6-25 versus 14-33. The 5 Int PC might very infrequently solve a very hard problem. The 20 Int PC can solve one in five nearly impossible ones. That they can attempt such puzzles with any expectation of success is remarkable.

That all said I would favour playing lower ability scores as nearer the middle, to avoid representations that may not be well-informed and are probably impossible to sustain. So I'm more envisioning that if one wants to portray exceptional talent in an area covered by an ability score, one reifies that with the score itself.

 

[Lanefan]

Seems trivial to reintroduce Comeliness!

One could, but it's also easy enough to fold attractiveness into Charisma. (I think Charisma has over the years been slowly sneaking into some willpower and strength-of-spirit territory that's better served by Wisdom)

 

[clearstream]

Reflecting on my last post, I feel looking at floor and ceiling can be informative. Comparing 5 with 20 then:

Tier 2 Lvl 5-8
Proficient 1-20 v 9-28
+guidance 2-24 v 10-32
Expert 4-23 v 12-31
+guidance 5-27 v 13-35

Tier 2 Lvl 9-10
Proficient 2-21 v 10-29
+guidance 3-24 v 11-33
Expert 6-25 v 14-33
+guidance 7-29 v 15-37

The 5 Int PC isn't one anyone comes to with nearly impossible problems. Even with Expertise and divine guidance they can fail even easy intellectual challenges. Under the same circumstances the 20 Int PC can't fail to overcome easy challenges and at the top of Tier 2 can't fail medium challenges.

When the stakes are highest, the Yard wouldn't approach the Int 5 PC for help, but go straight to the Int 20.

 

[pemerton]

I never played 4e

<snip>

I haven't played other RPGs

If you don't understand how your preferred style and array of RPGs stacks the deck of success in favor of voice actors, linguists, and extroverts (or whatever you'd like to call them that you feel is non-pejorative), I'm not sure we're going to get far in our discussion.

"Stacks the deck" implies cheating. Is that what you intended?

Given your own admitted unfamiliarity with RPGs beyond 5e and PF, I'm also not sure what your evidence base is for your assertion about the play of 4e D&D, Burning Wheel or Prince Valiant.

For my part I've never played RPGs with a voice actor or a linguist, but the one of each I've known in my life have been rather shy in social situations. The most memorable social action declarations in my RPG group have come from a customer service technician and a labourer.

Perhaps if you played 5e, you'd understand what truly matters to actual gameplay vs. making judgements based on what appears to be your effort to overlay your vast knowledge of other RPGs on top of the 5e chassis.

You seem to be projecting here.

 

[Hriston]

One could, but it's also easy enough to fold attractiveness into Charisma.

I think it must be, given that you're using a system (even DM decides) that influences NPC reactions, taking the character's Charisma into account. Attractiveness needn't be physical, however.

(I think Charisma has over the years been slowly sneaking into some willpower and strength-of-spirit territory that's better served by Wisdom)

My preference is to associate Charisma with emotional intelligence (EI). I think the mental health and motivational aspects of EI can correspond to some of what you're talking about, whereas Wisdom, for me, is more about having an awareness/intuition of the unseen/spiritual.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Reflecting on my last post, I feel looking at floor and ceiling can be informative. Comparing 5 with 20 then:

Tier 2 Lvl 5-8
Proficient 1-20 v 9-28
+guidance 2-24 v 10-32
Expert 4-23 v 12-31
+guidance 5-27 v 13-35

Tier 2 Lvl 9-10
Proficient 2-21 v 10-29
+guidance 3-24 v 11-33
Expert 6-25 v 14-33
+guidance 7-29 v 15-37

The 5 Int PC isn't one anyone comes to with nearly impossible problems. Even with Expertise and divine guidance they can fail even easy intellectual challenges. Under the same circumstances the 20 Int PC can't fail to overcome easy challenges and at the top of Tier 2 can't fail medium challenges.

When the stakes are highest, the Yard wouldn't approach the Int 5 PC for help, but go straight to the Int 20.

Awesome. In other words:

• The DM can have their NPCs treat the PCs differently, based on Int score
• The DM can introduce challenges that may rely on Int scores

There’s nothing in there that suggests how the player is supposed to roleplay, so I’m good with it.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

"Stacks the deck" implies cheating. Is that what you intended?

This exchange is going nowhere for me.

happy gaming

 

[Hriston]

It comes back to a simple question. At Kim's table, Kim and all of their players have agreed that occasionally an NPC can use persuasion or intimidation to determine a PC's thoughts and actions.

According to the OP, those players are no longer role playing and can no longer be said to be playing the game.

While I'm not sure I'd want to play at Kim's table, saying that they are no longer playing the game is one true wayism to me.

How can they be said to be playing the game when their character's thoughts and actions are being determined by Kim? It seems that in those instances of play, Kim is doing all the roleplaying, and the other players are merely actors following Kim's directions.

 

[clearstream]

Awesome. In other words:

• The DM can have their NPCs treat the PCs differently, based on Int score
• The DM can introduce challenges that may rely on Int scores

There’s nothing in there that suggests how the player is supposed to roleplay, so I’m good with it.

Sherlock, in their own mind

 

[Oofta]

How can they be said to be playing the game when their character's thoughts and actions are being determined by Kim? It seems that in those instances of play, Kim is doing all the roleplaying, and the other players are merely actors following Kim's directions.

Some people just like to go along for the ride now and then, as long as the fiction is entertaining it's all that matters. If a group enjoys it, I'm not going to say they're doing it wrong.

For that matter I throw in little vignettes that bridge together the story between sessions now and then. Major decisions are never made but if the PCs are directly involved I do decide how they react and what they say. My players have told me that they enjoy it.