The Proper Use of Nudity in FRPG Art

[MGibster]

Were that image done in 3e-art style the blade of the sword would be about as wide as the man's shoulders...

I never really cared for the surfboard style swords that were in vogue for a number of years. I'm thinking the influence came from either anime or JRPGs but I might be wrong.

I enjoy a lot of Warhammer art.

Part of the reason Warhammer models have oversized weapons is because of the limitations of modeling tiny figures for a table top war game. However, I'm with you. I happen to like the Warhammer aesthetic partly because it's ridiculous. Why I like the image of the Chaos Warrior you posted and dislike the Pathfinder Barbarian I'm not exactly sure.

 

[Voadam]

I never really cared for the surfboard style swords that were in vogue for a number of years. I'm thinking the influence came from either anime or JRPGs but I might be wrong.

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I think it is an anime and video game thing, where visual distinction is similar to the minis issue. I keep getting references to Cloud whenever I search big sword.

For the Pathfinder iconic barbarian though, she has a backstory for it of having taken it as spoils from fighting giants, it is a weapon not originally designed to be used by a human but she rages and gains enough strength to counterbalance the problems of using an oversized blade.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

I think the oversized swords came from Final Fantasy and computers JRPGs.

For the Pathfinder iconic barbarian though, she has a backstory for it of having taken it as spoils from fighting giants, it is a weapon not originally designed to be used by a human but she rages and gains enough strength to counterbalance the problems of using an oversized blade.

And in the CRPG, she's better respec'ed to use another type of weapon anyway until like two-third of the game, so they aknowledge that it's real pain to use this kind of blade.


At some point, the most inclusive solution for art will be no art:

• It costs less than having art (and with so many customers wanting very cheap products, it might be the way to go)
• Il is easier to print in an era where PoD is expensive and people might be tempted to print at home part of the book they'll use
• It avoids all accusation of imbalanced representation
• It removes accusation of historical errors ("why is there full plate in a setting without firearms? That's overkill!")
• It avoids all concerns about nudity
• It avoids accusations of drawing a monster with elements of a real-world culture and/or a real-word ethnicity
• Blind people aren't left out.

The drawback list is rather limited:

• There is no art to drive the imagination, so it must be driven by words only.

I really don't know the part of art in the total price of a book, but if there was a lower pricepoint for, say, products with no art and "basic printer-friendly layout" and another for a full-fledged book, I'd certainly go for the cheaper one, unless the difference was minimal.

 

[MGibster]

It's wrong for the fandom to argue against change knowing that not changing something is keeping someone from enjoying the hobby.

That's such an overly broad comment I can't agree. I'd need to look at the art in question and decide for myself whether it was wrong for the fandom to argue against changing it. There will no doubt be times where I agree the art should be changed and other times were I do not. I don't think it's necessarily wrong to disagree that something needs to be changed.

Yes, it really does. The only reason you can argue, "Well, if you don't like it, leave." is because you have the privilege of knowing that your voice will ALWAYS be heard. That everything you want and like will be catered to.

This isn't true. As I grow older, fewer hobby materials are created to cater to my tastes. And one of the reasons I bring up Avalanche Press in threads about art, is because it's a good example of how I was alienated from a product I actually had an inclination to purchase. I took one look at the covers of their book and decided they weren't interested in me as a customer. I reject the idea that everything I want and like will be catered to.

Swift, at no point, was punching down. He was very deliberately writing satire to effect social change. Are you now claiming that we should include pin-up art in game books as a vehicle for social change?

I'm not arguing for the inclusion of pin-up art in game books. Like I said, I avoided some game books specifically because of the cheesecake cover art. I would argue that it's probably appropriate for some products, and it's okay for it to exist even if I don't always care for it. Just because it makes someone uncomfortable is not a good enough reason for the fandom to want to change it. It's okay to like different things. It's okay if something isn't designed for everyone.

 

[Erik Alt]

I think anything sexual that heterosexual men like is bad and should be banned.

 

[CapnZapp]

Ok, 4 examples. NONE of them from RPG gaming.

So, what's your point?

My point I want the ttrpg hobby to react to new content the way the art world or the world of cinema reacts to new paintings or movies.

All the examples were taken from outside the ttrpg hobby deliberately, to show how other "hobbys" offer alternative solutions.

How does these culture circles marry respecting women with the freedom to portray females in objectifying situations? How do they reconcile objectionable art without censure?

That's a great question and I suggest we could perhaps apply any answers to our own hobby.

 

[MGibster]

I think anything sexual that heterosexual men like is bad and should be banned.

I don't think anyone here has argued from that point of view and it's an unfair characterization of those who have expressed concerns about art being inclusive.

 

[Erik Alt]

What does inclusive mean in this case? Sexy dressed men as well? If so I'm totally for it. The current prudishness is very annoying.

 

[S'mon]

I just bought Fizban's. There is a picture of Laurana fighting Kitiara from Dragonlance. Kitiara hasn't changed much, but Laurana now looks more like Kitiara than her original pic.
I noticed something similar in Curse of Strahd, the maiden Strahd lusts over now looks more like a pretty sexless hard bitten adventurer than a traditional Gothic Romance damsel.
To me these are both examples of inappropriate de-sexualisation of female characters, though the Strahd one is worse. At least Laurana was already a warrior, it's just now she looks not much different from the villain (shades of Captain Marvel, perhaps - a female hero who was scripted more like a traditional villain).

Like I said earlier, sexy/sensual art has its place, as well as having places where it doesn't work well. Removing sex from Dragonlance art heroines isn't a huge deal, though I think it's good to at least preserve a sense of virtue and even innocence. Removing sex from vampire art I think weakens the mythology, and creates something different and less fun. For me, at least.

 

[Reynard]

What does inclusive mean in this case? Sexy dressed men as well? If so I'm totally for it. The current prudishness is very annoying.

It's not about prudish sensibilities, it is about avoiding objectification and harassment as well as making people that aren't cis-het white dudes feel welcome. Sexy isn't always sexist, but it's easy for it to be if people are only thinking about how hawt the girl in distress is.