D&D 5E 5e* - D&D-now

[clearstream]

Expecting narration to be meaningful and selecting that as one of your core philosophies of this ‘version’ of the rules, makes little sense if there are no examples in play of narration that isn’t meaningful.

Instead saying ‘narration should be meaningful’ seems really just a truism, that doesn’t really distinguish 5e-now from 5e.

I’m hoping (as I think @Reynard is) that you can help me understanding how narration can ever not be meaningful, to clarify why the opposite is relevant to your version.

Do you think it will be possible for either of you to answer my questions about context?

From experience, what you are asking is likely to lead to disputes over what counts. I'd like to make sure we're not on shifting sands.

 

[TheSword]

Do you think it will be possible for either of you to answer my questions about context?

From experience, what you are asking is likely to lead to disputes over what counts. I'd like to make sure we're not on shifting sands.

Just looking for an example that could reaslistically come up in play. Not as some outrageously convoluted set of occurrences but of something that could reasonably occur in a typical game session. Otherwise what’s the point of stating a core philosophical approach to something that is an edge case.

 

[Reynard]

It's best to be clear what's on our minds. Is your thesis modal (we are guaranteed not to find any examples) or probabilistic (we might find some, but they will be rare)? Suppose we find some, is there a qualitative aspect so that you want to reserve the right to discount some cases?

I'm not evading. From experience we can save ourselves dozens of posts back and forth by establishing this context up front.

So, here's my frustration with the way you are responding: you made a claim that that the DM is capable of providing meaningless narration (as the foundational principle of your rule that they must provide meaningful narration). It is up to you to provide evidence (by way of example) for your claim. I can't provide you your example because I refute your base claim: I don't think there is such a thing as meaningless narration in the context of play that would actually occur at the table.

So, more plainly, I am asking you to prove me wrong by providing an example of meaningless narration.

 

[Reynard]

Il even cast a wider net: can anyone participating in this thread provide an example of meaningless narration by the GM in a situation that would actually occur in play?

 

[Blue]

Sometimes the DM must narrate something that is not actionable.

Say a character was suspicious of someone they were talking to, the DM called for an insight check, which resulted in an 11.

"They aren't giving any indications they are lying."

This is valid information, but brings nothing new that is actionable.

Sometimes the DM must narrate something that is not meaningful.

The DM is the window between the characters who live in the world and the players who are not. If a player wants additional information about what their character is experiencing, it is the DM's job to give that to them. Regardless if it's "meaningful".

Because 5e* violates both of these, I can not see it working in a practical way.

 

[TheSword]

Sometimes the DM must narrate something that is not actionable.

Say a character was suspicious of someone they were talking to, the DM called for an insight check, which resulted in an 11.

"They aren't giving any indications they are lying."

This is valid information, but brings nothing new that is actionable.

Sometimes the DM must narrate something that is not meaningful.

The DM is the window between the characters who live in the world and the players who are not. If a player wants additional information about what their character is experiencing, it is the DM's job to give that to them. Regardless if it's "meaningful".

Because 5e* violates both of these, I can not see it working in a practical way.

That example is meaningful, it means with an average roll, there character cannot see signs of lying. That mean the player now knows the individual is either telling the truth or a better than average liar. That gives them additional information on which to decide how to interact with that NPC.

 

[Blue]

That example is meaningful, it means with an average roll, there character cannot see signs of lying. That mean the player now knows the individual is either telling the truth or a better than average liar. That gives them additional information on which to decide how to interact with that NPC.

You seem to have missed the point, The second example was the one that wasn't meaningful. The one you are referring to I never claimed wasn't meaningful, I claimed it wasn't actionable.

 

[clearstream]

Il even cast a wider net: can anyone participating in this thread provide an example of meaningless narration by the GM in a situation that would actually occur in play?

A case based on one that was raised by another poster in a different thread, is this.

Characters are fighting a stone giant with 126 HP. A hit deals 1 HP. The DM narrates "Your hit deals 1 HP".

1) Is this case realistic? Could it come up in play?
2) How is the narration here meaningful?

 

[Reynard]

A case based on one that was raised by another poster in a different thread, is this.

Characters are fighting a stone giant with 126 HP. A hit deals 1 HP. The DM narrates "Your hit deals 1 HP".

1) Is this case realistic? Could it come up in play?
2) How is the narration here meaningful?

If the DM rolled the damage behind the screen, as some DMs do (admittedly rarely), then it is meaningful information. If the player rolled the damage, then it is still meaningful because the DM is confirming that the stone giant did take the damage (as opposed to it not bypassing DR or something similar).

 

[Oofta]

A case based on one that was raised by another poster in a different thread, is this.

Characters are fighting a stone giant with 126 HP. A hit deals 1 HP. The DM narrates "Your hit deals 1 HP".

1) Is this case realistic? Could it come up in play?
2) How is the narration here meaningful?

But would "You hit and barely scratch it"? Because that seems to fit into your narration.